[SI-LIST] Re: Fwd: Re: Decoupling Analysis for analog rails
- From: Balaji G <bala89si@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: joel@xxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2013 19:47:00 +0530
Hi all,
I implemented the suggestion of assigning model to ferrite bead to get
the impedance response of analog rails. I am using Murata ferrite bead
part no. BLM18SG121TN1 for which only S-parameter model is available and R
II L II C is not available. when I used S-parameter for ferrite bead, I got
peaks @low frequency for digital rail as well as analog rail. Is using
S-parameter model for ferrite bead is advisable?
Regards,
Balaji
On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:31 AM, Joel Brown <joel@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> You got me interested with the TDK SEAT tool so I have been playing around
> with it.
> One thing I am wondering is if the RLC model takes into account bias
> current and I am thinking it doesn't.
> When I create my own model in SEAT it only lets me set the bias current to
> zero and this is not very useful for real applications.
> If I select a TDK P/N then it does have different bias currents I can
> select.
> So how does one make a model that includes the effect of bias current, or
> are the RLC values essentially different depending on bias current?
> I would like use such models in Ltspice.
> Thanks - Joel
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Michael PARKER <michael.parker@xxxxxx
> >wrote:
>
> > Balaji,
> > I've had some success with modelling ferrites as Steve suggests, but with
> > a further R in series with the parallel RLC to set a baseline ESR.
> >
> > TDK's SEAT tool (http://www.tdk.com/seat.php) is very useful for
> > experimentation with values of RRLC, allowing you to plot Z, R, Y etc.
> and
> > match published data from the component manufacturer.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Mike
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
> si-list-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Balaji
> > > G
> > > Sent: 21 March 2013 09:03
> > > To: weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx
> > > Cc: si-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [SI-LIST] Re: Decoupling Analysis for analog rails
> > >
> > > Steve,
> > > Thanks for the suggestion. If I understood you correctly, its like
> > > assigning the ferrite with a model & considering analog net as Xnet
> then
> > > analysis should be done. I am using Cadence PDN Analysis for
> decoupling,
> > > let me check whether I can do this.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Balaji
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2013 at 1:59 PM, steve weir <weirsi@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > > That would not give an accurate result.
> > > >
> > > > Steve.
> > > > On 3/21/2013 1:07 AM, Shao, Peng wrote:
> > > > > Could not you account this ferrite bead into the VRM model?
> > > > > Peng Shao
> > > > >
> > > > > å¨ 2013-3-21ï¼14:24ï¼"Balaji G" <bala89si@xxxxxxxxx> åéï¼
> > > > >
> > > > >> Hi all,
> > > > >> We have analog and digital rails on our board. In case of
> Digital
> > > > rails,
> > > > >> we assign the VRM as source and provide the Lslew, Rflat, L0, R0
> > values
> > > > to
> > > > >> it and we get the PDN frequency response. In case of Analog rails
> > where
> > > > we
> > > > >> have a ferrite between the source and load, VRM will not be
> present
> > if
> > > > an
> > > > >> Analog net is selected. Should I consider the ferrite as source
> and
> > > > check
> > > > >> for decoupling? Is it a correct way of checking decoupling for
> > analog
> > > > >> rails? I believe most of the tools available doesn't consider the
> > > > ferrite
> > > > >> bead in decoupling analysis eventhough its assigned with a model.
> I
> > > > will be
> > > > >> happy to implement, if there is a suggestion.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Regards,
> > > > >> Balaji
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
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> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Steve Weir
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> --
>
> *Joel Brown**
> *
>
> **Chief Electrical Design Engineer
>
> *Z Microsystems, Inc.*
>
> 9820 Summers Ridge Rd.
>
> San Diego, CA 92121
>
> Tel: 858-831-7011
>
> Fax: 858-831-7001
>
> joel@xxxxxxxxxx
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