Actually, Evan, you have it backwards. There was never a united front to separate the whites. When the DQ went into place, a club called the White German Shepherd Dog Club of America was formed. It was later renamed the White German Shepherd Dog Club International. Until I believe it was the late 80s, early 90s, all white Fanciers showed in this organization and it was this organization's goal to keep the white a GSD. After that time, there was a splinter and another group decided they wanted to separate from the GSD breed and founded the American White Shepherd Assoc. Today, there's really just two factions, one that wants to stay a GSD (White German Shepherd Dog Federation) and one that doesn't (AWSA). I am one that wants to stay a GSD and can speak to say that the main concern for us is staying a GSD. Would we like to compete as a GSD in conformation? Sure we would (regardless if it meant in the same ring or as a variety), but our main concern is staying part of the breed that the white dog is, a GSD. Donna That is the problem. A lot of the White breeders talk to me. Some, (one group) wants to be a separate breed as in Europe. Some, (a second group) wants to compete with German shepherds in the conformation ring. A third group wants to be a separage class in the GSD show ring like smooth coated collies. Then there is the fourth group that wants to keep things as they are. When this issue first was brought to the board, when I was a member of the board, they were united and wanted to separate. Today there are different factions. I think it is clear what I think about awards. I feel that if someone earns the award, they should get it. If we want to disqualify white for obedience, then we should do it. They did if for conformation, and if we allow whites to compete at our national in obedience and they beat all those fantastic black and tans, then they should get the top award. I don't see it as a white issue. Maybe we should stop the whites from showing at all in all venues. After all, we were told in herding the sheep don't respect the whites. That should be enough to stop them for all time. Evan Ginsburg Asgard German Shepherds http://www.asgardgsd.com/ Where Type Movement and Temperament come together ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================