In a message dated 11/16/04 9:20:33 AM Pacific Standard Time, Tam@xxxxxxxxxxxx writes: << Nothing like setting myself up for a lynching my first week on the list, BUT, I've seen the so called temperament test used in many ways, most of them dead wrong, IMHO. A normal good tempered dog should not be asked to ignore anyone acting strange. No, they shouldn't be frightened but they should be wary, and if someone is acting very strange a good, strong tempered dog would be expected to react with a strong growl at the very least. The judge who attempts to frighten the daylights out of a dog, especially a puppy, should expect to have complaints written to the AKC. As a trainer and behaviorist I also do not believe in proofing the natural wariness out of a dog. We should never frighten our youngsters, and it is normal to react to bizarre behavior. We need to give them self confidence, not teach them to ignore their instincts. If a bizarre stranger was approaching me in a dark parking lot I'd certainly expect any German Shepherd, or any other dog for that matter, to back him off. A loose lead temperament evaluation should expect the dog to stand, unassisted by the handler, while approached by a NEUTRAL stranger, showing neither fear or aggression. Tam Foxridge NC >> Excellent post, Tam !!!! All sorts of tests for everything are usually performed by human beings. Which reminds me of an old African proverb: 'There are 40 different kinds of lunacy, but only one kind of Common Sense'...' So that limits our odds on how many Humans have 'Good Common Sense'... Asking that to be Matched with' Good Dog Sense'....really cuts into the odds.. JMO Barb Williams http://www.SantanaGermanShepherds.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2004. All material remains the property of the Poster and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original poster AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For technical help and administrative matters, please contact the List Administrators at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://www.showgsd.org ============================================================================