HI Kathy: I couldn't agree with you guys more. The legend handlers of our Breed Jimmy M., Lamar K. and Mary R. were handlers who trained the dogs to stack normally. In the case of Jimmy M. a handler who has trained his dogs to stack by themselves. It takes work but it can be done. I have always believed that many of our members shy away from AB shows not because of the small rings ( and they are small) but they would not be permitted to do their double handling madness outside the ring. As a judge I love to see the handler baiting rather than listening to a cow bell being rung outside the ring. In my younger years when I was doing my own handling I could give my dogs one of the most sparkling smiles with a piece of liver stuck between my teeth. We don't give our breed the intelligence credit they are due. With training they will walk into their show stance. It is his natural standing position. A great show dog as you said will demand you look at him or her. Tony Amoroso ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathy Tank<mailto:rbuffdogs@xxxxxxxxx> To: The List<mailto:showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2007 10:36 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] What ever happened to the "show" in showdog? Hi Guys I was having an interesting conversation the other day with some folks, and we talked about some of the great showmen (persons?) and dogs past and present. Some good questions came up , such as: Is it true that Specialty handlers won't bait stack a dog much at a specialty for fear of the judge believing or having the opinion "This is an AB dog" and why is that? Personally I love to see bait stacking, pretty hard to hand fix cow hocks and toeing out with a quick step into a stack..... (let me qualify I am NOT talking about the dogs that even the handler can't get near without a butterfly net, and the only thing that one can do IS bait stack, because you sure aren't touching the dog, lol.) Why aren't dogs "grandstanded" more at big specialties and our National? Afterall it is a dog SHOW, not an assembaly line,...shouldn't SHOWmanship on the part of the handler and RING PRESENCE AND DESIRE AND " LOOK AT ME" be a part of a great showdog? I love to see a dog, at a Specialty or AB step beautifully into a stack. Whether they are bait stacking or "free" stacking looking at the judge/crowd/mommy/daddy. I love to see a dog ask for, no, DEMAND a look. Jimmy Moses, regardless of how anyone feels is a truly great SHOWMAN. Are there judges out there that would be willing to admit they would NOT be likely to put up a dog at a specialty or National that were bait stacked often? <VBG> Remember Scoop and how GORGEOUS HE LOOKED when Terry would just let him step into a stack , on his own accord..... stunning. . Love to hear theories, comments. I say let them SHOW -off if they are capable and love it....it is part of what makes it so special. Kathy Tank-- http://www.victorygermanshepherds.com<http://www.victorygermanshepherds.com/> Ch. Elvaston's Nations Cup, TC, OFA 26 BOB/BISS to Date ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:admin@xxxxxxxxxxx>. VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org<http://www.showgsd.org/> ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================