Cathy, I don't think you really believe that OB was (quoting you below) "developed for two very different reasons to allow people who had a dog that was not competitive for the confirmation ring have another outlet to compete with their dogs." So it's a place for people with dogs that are "not exactly" to hang out and play? Gosh, not for me. When I read the intro to the OB rule book "The purpose of Obedience Trials is to demonstrate the usefulness of the purebred dog as a companion to man...... " I get goose bumps. Yes, there may have been a time when breeders sold their "not exactly" dogs to performance people. I was never an advocate of that practice. And yes, a lot of us started in performance with a dog that was "less than" and then wandered over to the breed ring. (At that point many of us decided we wanted it all.) But I disagree that OB (or other performance venues) was developed and promoted as an "outlet" for dogs that were "less than". Kathy, member GSDCA, DVGSDC Celebrating generations of Dual Titled TC'd Champions visit _http://www.pinehillgsds.com/_ (http://www.pinehillgsds.com/) In a message dated 2/9/2012 7:18:09 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, fmurch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: Well, I wanted to answer Carolyn's remarks about what I said with the obedience and confirmation venues. I was not saying this to put a "Chasm" between the obedience and breed people. I was saying this as these venues were recognized and developed for two very different reasons to allow people who had a dog that was not competitive for the confirmation ring have another outlet to compete with their dogs. If it was not for my start in obedience with my ILP GSD, I would have never gotten as involved in the breed or the sport itself. This is the same reason that Rally and Agility have been developed, not everyone wants to do obedience. Many of the dogs from all different breeds competing in performance would never make it in the breed ring, but that is not why their handlers got them and this is the majority, the number of CH competing from any breed in performance are in the minority. I have great respect for Lori and Julie and what they have accomplished with their CH. dogs and for that matter what your dogs have accomplished. Jane Jeter was a friend and we use to compete in obedience together and I know what it was like to be treated as a second class citizen at shows, we did not even have any tents in the early 80's to go under. We paid our entry fees they same as the breed folks, but we were treated differently. Perhaps as has been suggested, if the "Total Dog" is all that important, then the Selects should have to have some sort of performance title. I just believe that people who love the GSD and work hard to put the time and the money into performance should be allowed to compete for the top award in that venue. Also, call me stupid, but isn't obedience the only performance title we give a GV in? If performance and the "Total Dog": is so very important then each venue should have such an award and Agility is the fastest growing venue of the AC. I just feel if people support the breed and the Club they should be entitled to won the honors. By the way, does any one remember last years AKC's Search and Rescue GSD at Eukanuba? He had flopped ears, but his work won him honors and that everyone should be proud of as he represented what this breed was breed to do. Cathy Kelstar fmurch@xxxxxxxxxxxxx EarthLink Revolves Around You. ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. 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ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================