As a transplanted German, I agree totally with Peggy. When my Dad was young( that would have been in the 1920's), his father had a police dog - a German Shepherd (basically the same ones you see today). The longcoats were and still are a genetic throwback. The Altdeutsche Schaeferhund that you see in Germany are LC that were bred together. Since the DSHV will not recognize them, they've set up their own Vereine. It really is no different than the AKC/CKC saying your GSD should be 25" or smaller, short coated and registered with us. OK so your dogs are bigger and long coated, you can't register with us for breeding purposes. What she did was to create a market for "shiloh shepherds". This is (to me) just like'King Shepherds' or 'King Dobermans'. Someone likes to breed them big, doesn't necessarily mean that they're correct. BTW I have a LC German Shepherd (by accident) who I love dearly but will never breed. Mary-Anne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peggy" <pmick12@xxxxxxxxxxx> To: <CheradonGSD@xxxxxxx> Cc: <epeningt@xxxxxxxxxx>; <showgsd-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2007 10:06 AM Subject: [ SHOWGSD-L ] Re: Shiloh Shepherd REAL Origin My friend Johanna Gish grew up in Germany....a long time before 1971. She has been around German Shepherd Dogs since before she could walk...and I think she would tell you they were neither huge nor long coated...but true German Shepherds. When you say "books and people don't tell the WHOLE story," why would you believe someone who said their huge, long coated dogs were the FIRST German Shepherds? If you'd had the opportunity to ask Ernie Loeb (or even Henry Stoecker, who although not a GSD fancier himself, had a father who was involved in the breed and who set Henry on his path to being a dog handler in the Army when he immigrated to America from Germany, and who then became a famous professional handler in his day, and later an all breeds judge), or if you can ask Joe Bihari, Johanna Gish, or any of the other people in the breed who can remember what the dogs were like in Germany and other European countries when they were children, you would be more inclined to believe von Stephanitz's written history than some guy in the street who has a similar style of dog. Peggy > >In a message dated 3/21/2007 10:33:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, >epeningt@xxxxxxxxxx writes: >The first one I saw was in Germany in 1971..so not something new....if you >talked to their owner you found out they were the FIRST German Shepherds. >Sometimes books and people don't tell the WHOLE story > > > ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================ ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2007. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - www.showgsd.org ============================================================================