With regards to overangulation; nowhere in the Standard does it say or imply that dogs should walk with their hocks on the ground. This is a development that has occurred over decades of breeding...."a little angulation is a good...so a lot must be better". There is nothing wrong with the Standard and nothing needs to be changed; its the breeders that produce these animals and judges that put them up either A. because it is all they see and all they have to choose form or B.they think sidegait is more important than everything else in the Standard which is not correct "Faults of gait, whether from front, rear or side, are to be considered very serious faults". That is a completely different issue from changing the Standard to accommodate coat and color variations. Cindy On Monday, September 1, 2014 10:54 PM, Tina Klahn <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Carolyn, You kind of just proved a couple of my points. I very much refer to the standard because temperament is critical in the standard, but I see very few dogs that truly own the ground they stand on. I repeat, please point me to where the standard calls for the drastic slope in the top line seen in modern ASL GSDs (45 or more degrees). What about hocks on the ground when standing? All things I see in some of the top winning dogs that, in theory, should be top representatives of the standard right? You're right that health isn't in the standard, but that should really a given, shouldn't it? Again, I just don't see where color or coat length are so important compared to those things. Maybe ASL GSDs could benefit from the wGSD lines if nothing more than the expansion of the gene pool. If you don't want to breed to a white, that's completely your choice. Others may appreciate the addition of lines. To me, the fears of white spotting, etc (which to my knowledge really have nothing to do with the masking gene) aren't valid. If someone can point me in the direction of research proving the masking gene and white spots are the same thing, I'll happily apologize. :) On a side note, if the posts have not been attacks on one another, though I guess brutality is in the opinion of the reader, then why has admin had to shut so many threads down? I wish the people who replied to me in private, commending my words, would have done so public because there have been many. I expressed what many have been thinking and just didn't want to risk posting. Tina > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 22:25:25 -0500 > From: <marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Subject: Re: Observances > > Having missed seeing the brutal attacks.....all I can say is that this list > of problems would scare me enough to have second thoughts about getting a > sickly, spooky, dying GSD from dishonest "crazy house" breeders.... and > their Club. > None of these problems listed has to do with the Standard, but is the actual > responsibility of breeders of the GSD and those of us who post about it. > > Genetic testing for color is hardly going to solve the problem either. > > Carolyn marhaven@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > www.marhaven.com ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2014. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. 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