The long coat WITH undercoat, as we know, is shown in Germany as a separate class in various local as well as the German Sieger Show. All age groups are represented and shown as such. The German System is completely different than the AKC system regarding competition between classes as they do not compete to determine an overall Winner as each class has a Winner. It was logical for the SV to incorporate a separate class for the long coat with undercoat as many breedings produce longcoats from "normal coat breedings". This does not disenfranchise the longcoat and is an economic positive. I am STRONGLY in favor of having a class for the longcoats but feel we must discuss how to incorporate this into our system. My INITIAL opinion is to let the classes be separate and not compete against the "normal coat" which would set up what would be a separate class such as the small and larger poodles or beagles or other breeds with variances within the same breed. I feel a "trial run" at our National this year would be appropriate and allow those owners to be included into our fold!! Entries go up, interest goes up and cash flow goes up. I have noticed in my breedings that the longcoat has beautiful structure with superb forehand and hindquarter angulation. Most of the top sires produce longcoats and they themselves have have beautiful coats. So after this lengthy ramble we have much to gain and nothing to lose!! Thanks, Morton What was was, what is is --but what was is and what is was!! Morton Goldfarb ============================================================================ POST is Copyrighted 2011. All material remains the property of the original author and of GSD Communication, Inc. NO REPRODUCTIONS or FORWARDS of any kind are permitted without prior permission of the original author AND of the Showgsd-l Management. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Each Author is responsible for the content of his/her post. This group and its administrators are not responsible for the comments or opinions expressed in any post. ALL PERSONS ARE ON NOTICE THAT THE FORWARDING, REPRODUCTION OR USE IN ANY MANNER OF ANY MATERIAL WHICH APPEARS ON SHOWGSD-L WITHOUT THE EXPRESS PERMISSION OF ALL PARTIES TO THE POST AND THE LIST MANAGEMENT IS EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN, AND IS A VIOLATION OF LAW. VIOLATORS OF THIS PROHIBITION WILL BE PROSECUTED. For assistance, please contact the List Management at admin@xxxxxxxxxxx VISIT OUR WEBSITE - http://showgsd.org SUBSCRIPTION:http://showgsd.org/mail.html NATIONAL BLOG - http://gsdnational.blogspot.com/ ============================================================================