[pure-silver] Re: question about blue toners
- From: "Tim Rudman" <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:48:38 -0000
That is correct Cor, (but it's not available ready made off the shelf as far
as I know).
Tim
From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of C.Breukel@xxxxxxx
Sent: 13 November 2009 13:56
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: question about blue toners
Tim,
In your toning book you mention on page 184 Sommerville Indirect Blue toner
with the ferri in solution A as the bleach and solution B , the toning
solution with Ferrous sulphate, that is the one I used succesfully to make
split blue imeges..
Best,
Cor
-----Original Message-----
From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx on behalf of Tim Rudman
Sent: Thu 12/11/2009 23:42
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: question about blue toners
I missed all of this thread as my emails were down but the 2 bath iron toner
I particularly mentioned in my Toning book was Porcelain Blue by Speedibrews
as it was the only off the shelf 2 bath iron on the market that I know if. I
do have Foma blue on my shelves but as I use iron less and less now in
favour of archival toners I never got around to trying it - there (used to
be) so many and life is so short.
As always Richard's summary is excellent
Tim
From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Nelson
Sent: 12 November 2009 22:23
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: question about blue toners
Thanks Cor. I've made a note in my darkroom 'bible' to try that one next
time. I probably tried it a long time ago and don't remember the results!
Eric
_____
From: "C.Breukel@xxxxxxx" <C.Breukel@xxxxxxx>
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Thu, November 12, 2009 6:00:57 AM
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: question about blue toners
Eric,
I believe I used a toner like that (it was from Tim's excellent book on
toners). The nice thing is that it is a 2 steps toner; first you bleach, and
wash, and than you tone. The advantage is that you do not have to bleach
completely, you can do a partial bleach. After toning you have a hint of
blue in the highlights and the mid tones, which can be quite attractive..
Best,
Cor
_____
From: pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:pure-silver-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eric Nelson
Sent: woensdag 11 november 2009 19:43
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: question about blue toners
I just toned some prints w/241 and just to mention the images had a lot of
black, (stage shots of ballet). The toner will bleed into the borders
somewhat even with acidified wash water. Also the toner will darken the
images too. I used FAC green to make the toner. There is also a 2 part
formula by Blumann where I assume you mix the 2 before use. Given their
similarity, I would guess results would be similar as well.
BLUMANN IRON-BLUE TONER
SOLUTION A
WATER 206 mls
POTASSIUM FERRICYANIDE 2 gms
GLACIAL ACETIC ACID 30 mls
SOLUTION B
WATER 309 mls
FERRIC AMMONIUM CITRATE (GREEN) 3 gms
GLACIAL ACETIC ACID 45 mls
Prints need to be somewhat lighter and flatter than you might want. Wash in
acidified water and harden in 14 gms of Potassium Alum in 30 oz of water for
5 minutes. then wash again. Blumann calls for 3 changes of still water.
_____
From: Richard Knoppow <dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tue, November 10, 2009 11:48:00 PM
Subject: [pure-silver] Re: question about blue toners
----- Original Message ----- From: "Antonio Banfi"
<antoniomarioenrico.banfi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 2009 4:01 PM
Subject: [pure-silver] question about blue toners
By the way,
someone ever played with Foma blue toner? I guess it's a monobath
iron+chloridric acid toner; what I was wondering is if you can increase the
suggested dilutions (1+4 max.). Just more time to get the toning effect
(something I'd like), or something else happens (like stains, inactivity
etc.)?
Thanks J
Antonio
I couldn't find an MSDS for Foma Blue Toner but most of these toners are
based on the substitution of silver by iron in the toning process. The
iamges are not stable, Alkaline water will fade them and they may fade on
exposure to light although dark storage is supposed to regenerate them. The
color is similar to a blue print. I have no idea of what dilution does other
than it probably slows the toning. Here are a couple of formulae:
Ansco/Agfa 241 Iron Blue Toner
Water (preferably distilled) 500.0 ml
Ferroc ammonium citrate 8.0 grams
Potassium ferricyanide 8.0 grams
Acetic acid, 28% 265.0 ml
Cold water to make 1.0 liter
Any exposure to iron during toning will result in spots or streaks.
Prints to be toned should be fixed in a plain, non-hardening fixing bath.
When prints have been toned they will be greenish but will wash out to a
clear blue.
It is suggested that the wash water be slightly acidified with a small
amount of acetic acid.
Delibrate moderation of the blue tone can be gotten by treating washed
prints in a 5% solution of Borax.
Note: this formula does not specify the type of ferric ammonium citrate
scales to be used.
Kodak Iron Toner T-12
Ferric ammonium citrate (green scales) 4.0 grams
Oxalic acid 4.0 grams
Potassium ferricyanide 4.0 grams
Water to make 1.0 liter
Dissolve each chemical separately in a small amount of water, about 250 ml
and filter before mixing together. This soluton does not keep well except in
brown bottles
Immerse the well washed print in the toning bath for 10 to 15 minutes
until the desired tone is obtained. Then wash until the highlights are
clear.
Toned images obtained with this formula are not abasolutely permanent
since they consist of a mixture of silver with silver ferrosyanide and
ferric ferrocanide. On exposre to the atmosphere, which usually contains
traces of hydrogen sulfide, the silver ferrocyanide is converted to silver
sulfide which is usually apparent as a metallic sheen on the surface of the
toned print. This sulfiding of the image can be preventeed almost completely
by coating the prints with Kodak Print lacquer.
The final tone depends not only on the time of toning but also on the
density of the original print.
Prints to be toned should be washed thoroughly and treated with hypo
eliminator to insure freedomf from hypo. If hypo is present inferio tones
will result.
Note from RK, HE-1 is a bad idea, use Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent and wash
well before toning.
Note that both of these formulas work best on warm tone paper and that the
type of developer may affect the final tone.
I have two additional formulae from _Photographic Facts and Formulas_
which I copy for comparison but I am not sure they are reliable.
No.1
Ferric ammonium ditrate (10% solution) 60.0 ml
Potassium ferricyanide (10% solution) 60.0 ml
Acetic acid (10% solution) 600.0 ml
Pesumably the water in the individual solutions is all that is required.
No.2
Ferric ammonium citrate 0.4 grams
Potassium ferricyanide 0.4 grams
Nitric acid 0.75 ml
Water 480.0 ml
Ther is another set of blue toners using gold. These produce very
permanent images, and, in fact, are related to the standard treatment for
microfilm. However, the gold required makes them somewhat expensive. The
Blue color from gold toners is very dependant on the original image color
much like selenium toning. On neutral and cold tone papers, or on negatives,
there is little effect other than slight intensification. On very warm tone
papers there is a definite blue color. On most papers the blue is a subdued
slate blue. Gold toned images when subsequently treated in a sulfiding toner
will turn brick red.
For much more about toning see Tim Rudman's books on toning. A Google
search will find them.
--
Richard Knoppow
Los Angeles , CA , USA
dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
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