[pure-silver] Re: Sally Mann vs Kant in Houston
- From: Bill Stephenson <photographica@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 00:29:25 -0400
On Mar 26, 2007, at 2:32 PM, Shannon Stoney wrote:
It sounds as if you have not looked at the Sally Mann photographs.
Maybe if you do, you'll see what I mean.
For perspective, I'm a father of two - one of each, both grown now. I
did not photograph them nude, but living in an urban/suburban
borderline area in a cooler climate was not conducive to a lot of
nudity.
#1- I've looked at what Mann I could find online (14 or so images).
Are they disturbing? Yes, but not for lack of clothing. The contrast
of the innocence surrounded by an implied darkness bothers me far
more than the "breasts" of a 5-year old. To me - and this is strictly
personal - the photos are disturbing because they imply the impending
end of the innocence portrayed. Perhaps you missed the passing
reference to Sally and her husband as ex-hippies; for me, once a
hippie wannbe, that explains a huge part of the attitude and
lifestyle that produced these images.
#2 - In describing some of these photos, you have a tendency to jump
on buzz words - "splayed", "spread", "ogled", and so on. So, while
you might say that the viewer is "ogling a naked child splayed on a
couch for the world to see" (not your sentence, just using your
terms) I would tend to say that the viewer is "looking at a picture
of a nude child reclining on a couch". The words you choose make it
obvious that you are open to only one interpretation - yours - and
that you want your interpretation to form a boundary for all of us.
#3 - It might do us all well to realize that it's a relatively small
group of people who will actually see these photos, and that a very
large percentage of those will be approaching from the art/
photography side, not the child abuse/"feminist" side. I put
"feminist" in quotes, because I'm not sure that the term still has
meaning. I've never felt the need or desire to be a "malist" (though
I may have been an MCP on occasion <g>) and I would much prefer that
we all try to be humanists. Even within this group there are those
who do not make the connections that you do. For example, I had never
seen - or heard of - "the Ingres odalisque painting" to which you
refer. (No, no art history courses.) I just looked at it on the
Internet, and I fail to see the slightest resemblance to any of the
Mann photos I've seen (admittedly, not all of them). The open,
inviting sexuality of the Ingres is not even slightly evident in
Mann's photos. Sexuality, perhaps; an offertory - not at all.
#4 - You said (about girls/women) "...as soon as we reach puberty, we
feel as if men and boys are always looking at us..." That's probably
quite true, but don't think puberty problems are the sole domain of
the female. How do you think *we* feel when we've been given feet
that are too big to control, a voice that leaps from Paul Robeson to
Maria Callas on a whim, all with the subtlety of Ethel Merman,
clothes that are always too small, and we know that every girl is
just waiting for us to trip - physically, vocally, or any other way -
so that she and her friends can have a good laugh, *and* while we're
finding them more and more interesting, the opposite is true for
them: there is nothing more useless than a pubescent boy! (It's not
easy for either gender.)
#5 - The fact that you can say "Little boys don't give a fig about
naked little girls their own age." proves just one thing: you were
never a little boy!
#6 (and last) - As child or adult, even if every negative aspect that
you and others have mentioned about Mann's photographs is taken as
gospel, I would rather be the photographer or the subject of a
hundred books of nude photos than be involved in something that goes
on every day, is accepted by far more than will ever see Mann's
photos, is literally applauded by crowds of adults, and is - to my
mind - the most obscene child abuse I've ever seen. What is it? The
"beauty pageant" of the JonBenet Ramsey type. Doing that to a child
is truly disgusting!
-Bill
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