A couple of notes applying to this discussion: Citric acid is not suitable for a hardening fixing bath using white alum (Potassium Aluminum Sulfate) because it binds aluminum. This interfers with hardening and can generate an aluminum sludge. There is no advantage of an alkaline fixing bath over a neutral fixing bath. If a non-hardening and non-acid bath is desired it can be had using just Thiosulfate and Sulfite. About 5 grams/liter of sulfite is sufficient to protectect the thiosulfate in the absence of acid. Emulsion swelling is about minimum at neutral pH. The isoelectric point of most photographic gelatin is very slightly acid. Minimum swelling exists at this pH. By adjusting the gelatin to neuteral pH the swelling is close to the minimum but the binding of thiosulfate and fixer reaction products due to charges in the emulsion are eliminated. Also, the diffusion path is minimised, a desirable condition for washing. Alkaline or acid fixers will increase the swelling. The further they are from the isoelectric point of the gelatin the greater will be the swelling. Wash rates of material fixed in various baths is the same once the material is treated in a sulfite wash aid. Buffering the wash aid to neutral insures minimum swelling of the emulsion consistent with the conditions of charge required to maximise washing rate. Sulfite has the additional function of being an ion exchanger so it accelerates washing to a much greater extent than would be accomplished by simply adjusting pH. The function of the hardener in the fixing bath is to reduce the emulsion swelling from all processing steps. The amount of swelling of gelatin depends on many factors including, among others, the inclusion of hardeners in the gelatin at the time of manufacture, the exact nature of the gelatin itself, the addition of non-gelatin materials to the emulsion (synthetic polymers for instance), which may substantially reduce swelling, temperature of the processing solutions, others. Modern films have, for the most part, very hard emulsions which will withstand quite high or low pH without damage and quite high processing temperatures. Most modern developers are relatively low in pH. A non-hardening fixing bath can be made to be close to the isoelecric point of gelatin without losing its ability to stop development. The pH required by a developer to be active depends on the developing agents used. Some developing agents can operate in slightly acid environment. Metol and Amidol are examples. D-25, for instance is pH 7.0, and some Amidol paper developers are made slightly acid. There have been a number of scientific papers written about the swelling effect of processing solutions on emulsions. I can probably find and cite them but some of the older books like _Theory of the Photographic Process_ C.E.K. Mees, have extensive bibliographies and citations to papers which are still for the most part valid. I will now be like Ryuji and suggest excercizing the local library facilities. BTW, if the citizens of your locality have seen fit to shut down library services to avoid taxes please SCREAM about it. Libraries are among the greatest bargains in the world. Don't get me started on this. --- Richard Knoppow Los Angeles, CA, USA dickburk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ============================================================================================================= To unsubscribe from this list, go to www.freelists.org and logon to your account (the same e-mail address and password you set-up when you subscribed,) and unsubscribe from there.