Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers

  • From: "RicksPlace" <ofbgmail@xxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 05:54:27 -0400

If you want to view something that would be a good starting point there are Chip Orange's Visual Basic Scripting classes for scripting WindowEyes. He holds c class every Sunday evening at 7:00 pm est. He uploads notes and, or, sample code to his Chat Room's File-Sharing List for students to download and talks through each class allowing students to ask questions or have their own inputs to the class. don't try and ReInvent the wheel. You could offer tutorials, classes and tutoring in a Chat Room with a few features like a FileSharing control, a way of sterio mix and whatever else you can think of. Several Chat Rooms offer these types of features or you can set them up using your own software. So everything is already in place. The only thing you wanted to do was set up an acreddited institution which is where the heavy lifting would come in. So that's what it is. The technicals are already there and being used by several folks from Lion's world and other major organizations to smaller groups like the WindowEyes Scripting classes offered by an individual. I have toyed with setting up a class for new blind Visual Studio users and gear it twoard University level students but, as with many things, time and money are a problem. I could work-around the time problem but ah, the money problem, there's the rub as the bard once quipped. It costs money to keep up with the new versions of Windows OS, Visual Studio and the new versions of Windoweyes. Also, every few years you need more powerful computers to handle the ever increasing power hogs that are today's professional development environments and that all costs cash.

Rick USA
using  when that project would be beyond
----- Original Message ----- From: "John G" <jglists0@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 8:24 PM
Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind programmers


But this would be interactive. For example, a lab
session on visual studio. the students would be
given exercises to complete during the session
while the instructor would be there on hand to
help those having access issues, that sort of thing.
John


I had thought of doing a programming radio show on acbradio but I thought it
was to geaky.

Ken

-----Original Message-----
From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 5:05 PM
To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind
programmers


What does the list think of the idea of a live
audio channel as an extension of programming
Blind and nonvisualdevelopment.org?
Skype, TeamTalk offer two ways of achieving this goal.
With the wealth of knowledge on this list I'm
sure it could become an invaluable source of learning.
Interactive sessions, lectures if you like, could
range from accessibility matters to straitforward software engineering.
for example, programming with VS and JFW or
Window-Eyes, the basics of programming,
programming in Java, object oriented analysis and
design, databases, the list goes on.
Such a scheme would require organisation and
discipline to pull off but I have no doubt we've plenty of both on PB.

Kind regards,
John

>I also am inclined to agree with this. I'm just
>finished with school and haven't gotten to see
>first hand just how much of an impact it will
>have in the workforce, I admit, but I know I
>learned a lot about not just programming but
>about working smoothly on a development team
>otherwise made up of sighted developers by going
>to a "normal" university for CompSci. My fear
>would be that in a special environment for blind
>programming instruction all the tools used for
>class would be the most accessible ones
>available. Then a student would get into the
>work force with an employer who doesn't use
>those ideal accessible tools and the student
>would be ill-equipped to problem solve this
>challenge. I think having a vibrant, active
>community of blind coders working on things like
>nonvisualdevelopment.org and contributing to
>forums like this one is a great way to help
>address the unique challenges of being a blind
>coder, but in the grand scheme of things I feel
>I spend about 10% of my time devoted to
>programming and related pursuits finding
>blind-friendly ways of using tools or
>environments. The other 90% is the same process
>of learning programming that my sighted peers
>take on. I also do think there would be issues
>with many employers disregarding or harboring
>skepticism of applicants who listed a
>specialized school for blind people on a resumé.
>Still, a good idea to kick around and get a variety of prospectives on.
>On 4/7/2011 3:23 PM, Sina Bahram wrote:
>>I agree with this as well.
>>
>>Take care,
>>Sina
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry
>>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 1:08 PM
>>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to
>>start a school for blind programmers
>>
>>I have to say this even though I think there is a place for what you're
>>thinking of.
>>
>>I hate sepertive schools.  One of the things that made me a good
programmer
>>was competing against the people I would be competing against in the >>work
>>world In the academic world.
>>
>>The salt Lake community college had a class run by novel that taught >>blind
>>people to code for Novel OS but I found the students that came out of
their
>>knew a single thing and not very well.
>>
>>Now with that said if the standards are high enough a school like this
could
>>be a good benefit but you have to be careful not to dumb down both the
speed
>>of learning or quality thereof.  Of course that is true for all schools.
>>
>>One last thing though that the regular schools taught me. That is part >>of
>>life as a blind coder is finding ways to cope with problems that you run
>>into.  If you have things handed to you, you might not be as affective
when
>>you get out in the work world.
>>
>>Ken
>>
>>Ken
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Cox
>>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:03 PM
>>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>Subject: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind
>>programmers
>>
>>This is still in the dumb-idea phase, and I don't have any funding
>>lined up to get this started.  That said...
>>
>>I have not been able to find any on-line school for teaching blind
>>people to become professional programmers.  I feel the world needs
>>such an organization.  I am not able to start such a school myself,
>>but I would be interested in assisting social entrepreneurs in
>>starting such a venture.  I it would best be implemented as a
>>for-profit social entrepreneurial venture.  You can read about social
>>entrepreneurs here:
>>
>>http://www.ashoka.org/social_entrepreneur
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_entrepreneurship
>>
>>I'm thinking it could be a Low Profit Corporation (LPC) founded to run
>>the school for a profit.  Everyone hired in teaching or management
>>would be vision impaired or blind.  Students would attend classes
>>on-line, and could be anywhere in the world.  Classes would not be
>>free (maybe $1,000 per 1-semester course?).  Students who are too poor
>>to pay would be expected to do well in their courses and make up their
>>fees by assisting teaching of those courses in later semesters.  They
>>might also be required to work for an associated consulting company to
>>earn tuition.  Students would be encouraged to help mentor each other
>>in any case.
>>
>>Associated with the school could be a software consulting services
>>company.  The company would only hire vision impaired programmers, and
>>students wanting to work for the company could take classes designed
>>to train them in the skills they'll need.  The company might encourage
>>it's employees to spend one day a week on FOSS projects of their
>>interest, which hopefully would include improving accessibility.
>>
>>Rough numbers to back up the idea:  There are around 15 million people
>>with "severe" vision impairments in the US.  Roughly half of those
>>people are too old.  Half of the rest may have other impairments that
>>would prevent them from becoming programmers.  In the general
>>population, there are 1 programmer out of every 500 people in the US.
>>I would expect a ratio at least that high among the blind, or about
>>7,500 professional programmers in the US alone.  If we took 20 years
>>to train that many, it'd be 375 new students per year, and assuming a
>>two year program, we'd have 750 students.  If only half paid the class
>>fees, but took three classes at a time (a full load), that'd be
>>$3,000*750*2 = $4.5 million per year.  My kids go to a school which
>>happens to have about 750 students and a budget of just over $4
>>million per year, and that includes paying for a school.  So, that
>>math seems to work out, but we're not talking about anyone making a
>>billion dollars in this effort.  This is not a VC-fundable idea, but
>>it might attract funding from groups that invest in socially
>>beneficial startups.
>>
>>I know a couple of good candidates to start this school, and one might
>>be interested in actually doing it.  Are there any good blind or
>>vision impaired people you guys could recommend for me to talk to?  I
>>think the key would be finding the right couple of guys.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Bill
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