Well, here's perhaps another aspect of this to consider. Instead of a "school", per se, maybe it'd be better simply to have folks host training sessions in a tool w/which they're familiar in order to help blind programmer wanna-be's (like me, for example) get up & runnin so they can help open source projects dedicated to the blind community such as NVDA, Orca, or Vinux, just to name a few. &, u know, it's not that folks like us can't--it's just that w/lots of stuff on our plates, sometimes it requires a scheduling commitment like that to get the ball rolling. I'll just talk about my situation as a start. I'd like nothing better than to learn about OSM's & such, but the info out there seems pretty minimal, or at least I haven't been able to find any. I have looked, maybe just not in the right places. And folks I thought might know just kind a said, "I dunno of any resources to suggest." Just my 2 cents, & probly worth exactly what every1 paid for it. On 4/7/11, Ken Perry <whistler@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Um radio on acb can be interactive a long time back someone invented this > thing called phones. Grin. > > Ken > > -----Original Message----- > From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G > Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 8:25 PM > To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind > programmers > > But this would be interactive. For example, a lab > session on visual studio. the students would be > given exercises to complete during the session > while the instructor would be there on hand to > help those having access issues, that sort of thing. > John > > >>I had thought of doing a programming radio show on acbradio but I thought > it >>was to geaky. >> >>Ken >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John G >>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 5:05 PM >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>Subject: Re: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind >>programmers >> >> >>What does the list think of the idea of a live >>audio channel as an extension of programming >>Blind and nonvisualdevelopment.org? >>Skype, TeamTalk offer two ways of achieving this goal. >>With the wealth of knowledge on this list I'm >>sure it could become an invaluable source of learning. >>Interactive sessions, lectures if you like, could >>range from accessibility matters to straitforward software engineering. >>for example, programming with VS and JFW or >>Window-Eyes, the basics of programming, >>programming in Java, object oriented analysis and >>design, databases, the list goes on. >>Such a scheme would require organisation and >>discipline to pull off but I have no doubt we've plenty of both on PB. >> >>Kind regards, >>John >> >> >I also am inclined to agree with this. I'm just >> >finished with school and haven't gotten to see >> >first hand just how much of an impact it will >> >have in the workforce, I admit, but I know I >> >learned a lot about not just programming but >> >about working smoothly on a development team >> >otherwise made up of sighted developers by going >> >to a "normal" university for CompSci. My fear >> >would be that in a special environment for blind >> >programming instruction all the tools used for >> >class would be the most accessible ones >> >available. Then a student would get into the >> >work force with an employer who doesn't use >> >those ideal accessible tools and the student >> >would be ill-equipped to problem solve this >> >challenge. I think having a vibrant, active >> >community of blind coders working on things like >> >nonvisualdevelopment.org and contributing to >> >forums like this one is a great way to help >> >address the unique challenges of being a blind >> >coder, but in the grand scheme of things I feel >> >I spend about 10% of my time devoted to >> >programming and related pursuits finding >> >blind-friendly ways of using tools or >> >environments. The other 90% is the same process >> >of learning programming that my sighted peers >> >take on. I also do think there would be issues >> >with many employers disregarding or harboring >> >skepticism of applicants who listed a >> >specialized school for blind people on a resumé. >> >Still, a good idea to kick around and get a variety of prospectives on. >> >On 4/7/2011 3:23 PM, Sina Bahram wrote: >> >>I agree with this as well. >> >> >> >>Take care, >> >>Sina >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Ken Perry >> >>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 1:08 PM >> >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>Subject: RE: Searching for blind programmer to >> >>start a school for blind programmers >> >> >> >>I have to say this even though I think there is a place for what you're >> >>thinking of. >> >> >> >>I hate sepertive schools. One of the things that made me a good >>programmer >> >>was competing against the people I would be competing against in the > work >> >>world In the academic world. >> >> >> >>The salt Lake community college had a class run by novel that taught > blind >> >>people to code for Novel OS but I found the students that came out of >>their >> >>knew a single thing and not very well. >> >> >> >>Now with that said if the standards are high enough a school like this >>could >> >>be a good benefit but you have to be careful not to dumb down both the >>speed >> >>of learning or quality thereof. Of course that is true for all schools. >> >> >> >>One last thing though that the regular schools taught me. That is part > of >> >>life as a blind coder is finding ways to cope with problems that you run >> >>into. If you have things handed to you, you might not be as affective >>when >> >>you get out in the work world. >> >> >> >>Ken >> >> >> >>Ken >> >>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>[mailto:programmingblind-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bill Cox >> >>Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 12:03 PM >> >>To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >>Subject: Searching for blind programmer to start a school for blind >> >>programmers >> >> >> >>This is still in the dumb-idea phase, and I don't have any funding >> >>lined up to get this started. That said... >> >> >> >>I have not been able to find any on-line school for teaching blind >> >>people to become professional programmers. I feel the world needs >> >>such an organization. I am not able to start such a school myself, >> >>but I would be interested in assisting social entrepreneurs in >> >>starting such a venture. I it would best be implemented as a >> >>for-profit social entrepreneurial venture. You can read about social >> >>entrepreneurs here: >> >> >> >>http://www.ashoka.org/social_entrepreneur >> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_entrepreneurship >> >> >> >>I'm thinking it could be a Low Profit Corporation (LPC) founded to run >> >>the school for a profit. Everyone hired in teaching or management >> >>would be vision impaired or blind. Students would attend classes >> >>on-line, and could be anywhere in the world. Classes would not be >> >>free (maybe $1,000 per 1-semester course?). Students who are too poor >> >>to pay would be expected to do well in their courses and make up their >> >>fees by assisting teaching of those courses in later semesters. They >> >>might also be required to work for an associated consulting company to >> >>earn tuition. Students would be encouraged to help mentor each other >> >>in any case. >> >> >> >>Associated with the school could be a software consulting services >> >>company. The company would only hire vision impaired programmers, and >> >>students wanting to work for the company could take classes designed >> >>to train them in the skills they'll need. The company might encourage >> >>it's employees to spend one day a week on FOSS projects of their >> >>interest, which hopefully would include improving accessibility. >> >> >> >>Rough numbers to back up the idea: There are around 15 million people >> >>with "severe" vision impairments in the US. Roughly half of those >> >>people are too old. Half of the rest may have other impairments that >> >>would prevent them from becoming programmers. In the general >> >>population, there are 1 programmer out of every 500 people in the US. >> >>I would expect a ratio at least that high among the blind, or about >> >>7,500 professional programmers in the US alone. If we took 20 years >> >>to train that many, it'd be 375 new students per year, and assuming a >> >>two year program, we'd have 750 students. If only half paid the class >> >>fees, but took three classes at a time (a full load), that'd be >> >>$3,000*750*2 = $4.5 million per year. My kids go to a school which >> >>happens to have about 750 students and a budget of just over $4 >> >>million per year, and that includes paying for a school. So, that >> >>math seems to work out, but we're not talking about anyone making a >> >>billion dollars in this effort. This is not a VC-fundable idea, but >> >>it might attract funding from groups that invest in socially >> >>beneficial startups. >> >> >> >>I know a couple of good candidates to start this school, and one might >> >>be interested in actually doing it. Are there any good blind or >> >>vision impaired people you guys could recommend for me to talk to? I >> >>think the key would be finding the right couple of guys. >> >> >> >>Thanks, >> >>Bill >> >>__________ >> >>View the list's information and change your settings at >> >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> >> >>__________ >> >>View the list's information and change your settings at >> >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >> >> >>__________ >> >>View the list's information and change your settings at >> >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> > >> >__________ >> >View the list's information and change your >> >settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >>__________ >>View the list's information and change your settings at >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind >> >>__________ >>View the list's information and change your settings at >>//www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > __________ > View the list's information and change your settings at > //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind > > -- Blame the computer--why not? It can't defend itself & occasionally might even be the culprit Jackie McBride Jaws Scripting training materials: www.screenreaderscripting.com homePage: www.abletec.serverheaven.net __________ View the list's information and change your settings at //www.freelists.org/list/programmingblind