[program-l] Re: oracle and blind programmer

  • From: "Will Pearson" <will-pearson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Mon, 1 Aug 2005 21:57:51 +0100

Hi,

This strikes me as a lot of work. At the moment if we want something of Microsoft's to be made accessible we have to go to the appropriate product group in Microsoft, if we want Oracle made accessible then we have to go to Oracle, if we want Sun's stuff accessible, then we have to go to Sun, and so on. To me, this seems like a lot of repetition and hard work, and I think there has to be a better way. At present I don't see many complaints about why the screen reader vendors aren't making efforts to try and create a generic solution to accessibility, a catch all solution if you like, one that would make everything accessible through the screen reader. All right, this isn't exactly the social model of disability that we're meant to be embracing in this modern age, but I tend not to go in for models much, except for models of communication such as the Shannon-Weaver one *smile*.

It's not as if it isn't technically impossible. All right, it isn't possible with the techniques currently implemented in screen readers, but that isn't to say that techniques don't exist, or couldn't be developed, that work towards delivering this generic form of access. There's a lot going on in academia, including my own work and that on the semantic web, that could go a long way to making this a reality. So, it likely can be done, especially if you forget about section 508 *g*.

After saying that, there is one drawback. If we had a generic form of access, then no one would be able to sell any upgrades based on the fact that their screen reader worked with product x, or z version of product y. Am I that cynical that I think this could be a major reason why we haven't seen that much progress yet?

... just some musings from an academic research guy.

Will
----- Original Message ----- From: "Justin Daubenmire" <justind@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 8:01 PM
Subject: [program-l] Re: oracle and blind programmer



Hi Gary.

Sure, we can petition oracle but they are 100% aware of accessibility lacking in their products. In fact, they have an accessibility specialist on board that is blind to help them out in pinpointing what is not accessible and how to improve it. He has been with them for the past few years and we haven't seen hardly any large increases in accessibility that I can tell from my interactions with others and my own personal research on this issue. However, Oracle is not moving forward quick enough at all. Sure, they are moving forward some, but, I think we are after large strides and not small ones since the ability to get us accessible tools is there.

I'd be willing to sign any petition or whatever if someone wants to whip up one here and get more than 5 signatures from blind oracle dbs *laugh*.

I actually had a college professor call oracle when I was in college back at oracle 6 think it was, faxed them all the information, I wrote up a detailed report on it in ms word format, they got it confirmed it with the proff, said they would get back to the proff and never did.

So, my take on it is we are not priority at all. They've known about this for years and just keep putting stuff at the front to look like they are moving into it but really, taking slow strides toward it.

Justin

----- Original Message ----- From: "Wunder, Gary" <WunderG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 2:13 PM
Subject: [program-l] Re: oracle and blind programmer



I am a programmer and an active member of the NFB. I concur and will do
what I can to raise the visibility of Oracle in our organization, but I
can't let this go by without saying that the NFB and others who press
companies for software we can use are only as strong as blind people and
those they recruit decide we should be. Whether it's finding the
technical people to talk the language of the developers, the legal
people to talk the language of the lawyers and the executives, or the
funds to attend the meetings where the persuasion takes place, none of
this happens without the active and vigorous involvement of blind folks.
In the U.S. these days, we hear a lot about the power of the individual,
and none of us with an ego would argue against the power of choice in
our lives - especially those choices we've made that are right. It's
common to hear what "they," should do and to say "I'm not much of a
joiner," or "I'm not much for that political stuff," but the kind of
change we want requires both individual drive, native intelligence, and
an abundance of energy, as well as the good-sense to join with others
who have the same needs and who have a joint commitment to see that they
are met. I make this point to emphasize that it isn't that we have an
abundance of money, talent and time and all we need do is decide where
to put it. We need more of all of them, and I hope folks who really want
this accessibility as I do will join in an active, organized effort to
get it.

Gary

 -


-----Original Message----- From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Eileen Lafond Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 12:00 PM To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [program-l] Re: oracle and blind programmer

Right on!!

Eileen La Fond
Phone (206) 386-0011
e.mail Eileen.LaFond@xxxxxxxxxxx

david.lant1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 07/30 2:02 AM >>>
... And all this just goes to confirm my proposal that NFB and the like
should be spending *far* more time rattling Oracle's cage about their
accessibility efforts.  To my mind, there is no excuse for tools being
this inaccessible these days.

All the best,

David
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