[program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
- To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:01:38 -0400
I'm not a lawyer and understand you were expressing an informal,
personal opinion that was half-joking in nature. I am curious though
why you have a poor opinion of open source. I'm not interested in a war
of words, just good discussion.
Jamal
-----Original Message-----
From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Mark Long
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 10:41 AM
To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
Next you will be suggesting open source... and that, my friend, is the
way of madness.
(to any lawyers present. This is a joke, not a policy statement)
-----Original Message-----
From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Corbett, James
Sent: 22 September 2005 15:27
To: 'program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
Ya, JFW.net! Just think of the possibilities. We could write our own
script
language based upon the .Net frame work. We could incorporate all the
things
we desire into the platform that HJ neglects to introduce. We could fix
all
the issues that we encounter that we are told are design features... and
best of all if we had technical support issues we could call someone and
if
they said "You and all your friends should call some one else and have
them
create a wish list", we would know who to call because we are all
friends
right! PS. There is some history here that some of you might not know
of!
Yes, I think I will give up my day job and get right down to it and
create
this new platform. Hey, wait a minute maybe we could ask some one on
this
list with experience in creating their own operating system to lend a
hand... by the way where has little old Tyler gone!
Ok, to much whiskey, not enough sleep and Viagra isn't cutting it any
more!
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Bishop [mailto:jeff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: September 22, 2005 10:16 AM
To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
JFW.Net?
-----Original Message-----
From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Corbett, James
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2005 7:13 AM
To: 'program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
David:
Don't go away mad, just go away! <smile> Hey that gives me an idea, what
do
you think of JFW.net?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: David Lant [mailto:david.lant@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: September 22, 2005 10:05 AM
To: 'program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
Hi Jim,
Ah, but you can code in COBOL and RPG in .NET now, so the same
techniques
apply even there these days. <grin>
David Lant
I.T. Consultant
Consultancy & Development
ICT Services
Tel: (01392) 382464
Devon County Council accepts no legal responsibility for the contents of
this message. The views expressed do not reflect those of Devon County
Council.
-----Original Message-----
From: Corbett, James [mailto:James.Corbett@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 22 September 2005 14:56
To: 'program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
David and Mark:
What has happened to the good old days when all programmers were anal
retentive and coded everything by hand because they were all control
freaks... I give up and I am going back to COBOL and RPG.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: David Lant [mailto:david.lant@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: September 22, 2005 9:45 AM
To: 'program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx'
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
There is, in the meantime, the Docking and Anchoring feature that should
enable a fair bit of resizing and moving of controls in a form when it
is
resized. I don't think it covers all beans, but it should take care of
the
basics at least. It's not as intuitive as the control grid sounds
though.
David Lant
I.T. Consultant
Consultancy & Development
ICT Services
Tel: (01392) 382464
Devon County Council accepts no legal responsibility for the contents of
this message. The views expressed do not reflect those of Devon County
Council.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Long [mailto:Mark.Long@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 22 September 2005 14:29
To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
Actually, I would say that it is good practice. We have features to
allow
controls to "stick" to one of the form boundaries to automate this
process
to some degree.
The version of VB after VS.NET 2005 is Orca and that will support
control
grids where controls can be assigned to a grid position and will
automatically resize and move as required when the form size changes. If
you
place and size your controls in code, you will be several years ahead of
the
curve in a sense.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Will Pearson
Sent: 22 September 2005 14:06
To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [program-l] Re: VB: Laying out items
Hi Che,
Yes, there's nothing wrong in sizing your controls using code, even
creating
controls on your form using code. It's often common place for someone
to at
least modify the initial sizes and locations of controls in response to
various events the user invokes, say resizing a form, and creating
controls
dynamically using code allows someone to modify the display in response
to
the current state of the application.
Within the code there's various properties to modify positions and
sizes:
Height
Width
Top
Bottom
Left
Right
Size
Location
Plus there's some more that are useful if you are creating your own
controls, i.e.. you're not using the system supplied control classes
such as
button controls, edit controls, etc.
Sizing controls in code offers one advantage over the Windows Forms
designer, at least for a blind person. You can use:
System.Drawing.Graphics.MeasureString
to work out the height and width of a text string. This allows you to
determine what the height and width of a control should be in order to
fit
in a text string that you wish to have as a label, item, etc. You can
then
add any spacing you wish to have between the text and the control's
border,
and you have then worked out the size for the control. One tip that I
have
if you decide to take the code route, is to use math to work out where
each
control should be located and it's size. Position your first control
relative to a point on the form, and then each control's location should
be
relative to other controls that you have already positioned on the form.
This formulaic approach is useful if you want to reposition your
controls
when the user resizes the form, as all you have to do is alter a few
variables in the calculation and then re-run the algorithm. When a user
resizes a form you can do one of three things:
1. Not allow them to resize the form, i.e.. have it at a constant fixed
size
2. Reposition, and maybe resize, your controls to fit them into the new
area
of the form
3. Leave the control's positions and sizes as they were originally,
covering
up any non-visible areas if they shrink the form's size, or leaving a
margin
of whitespace should they expand the form's size beyond the original
size
which one is appropriate is up to how you want to design your
application.
If you want to use the Windows Forms designer, then once you've selected
the
control you wish to move or resize, select properties from the context
menu
and alter the properties associated with the location and size. Using
the
Windows Forms designer can be a quicker method to using code, and has
the
advantage of allowing you to show the form's design to someone and
getting
their feedback on whether it looks OK without having to put in all the
code
to create and successfully compile the code for the form.
Working in the field of human computer interaction, I would encourage
you to
layout a form according to the needs and expectations of your target
users.
A couple of useful tricks are not to cram too many things close
together, as
this hinders a user's ability to quickly visually differentiate between
the
different controls, e.g.. two buttons placed very close together could
be
perceived as one big button if they are too close together. The second
trick is to group controls that have similar functionality, or perform
actions on the same object, together by having less spacing between
these
controls than you would controls that have very distinctive
functionality
from one another, something that again is a trick that leverages
perceptual
psychology.
Will
----- Original Message -----
From: "Che" <che@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: [program-l] VB: Laying out items
> So how do blind programmers lay out their design form in studio? I
know
> you can move items with the arrow keys and all, but how do you tell if
> things are laid out properly, or lined up and so forth. For instance,
how
> do you line up labels with appropriate text fields?
> Thanks for any advice,
> Signed,
> Slowly making progress
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