[program-l] Re: Indentation of code
- From: Mark Long <markalong64@xxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 21:04:45 +0000
Uncrustify does a similar job: http://uncrustify.sourceforge.net/
Mark
> From: oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxx
> To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 22:17:17 +0200
>
> I have decided to use the Allman style of formatting code.
> I actually like the layout of Allman and I have no problem reading the code.
> So far I've just tested it out on my own code which are some very simple
> console programs, so I don't know if it will make reading more complex code
> harder.
> I also found a neat little code styler called Artistic Style which
> automatically formats code.
> It supports C, C++, C# and Java and has pre-defined styles for Allman, GNU
> etc.
> It's a console program which makes it fully accessible.
>
> Astyle --style=allman source.cs
>
> That's it. Extremely simple.
>
> Artistic Style:
> http://astyle.sourceforge.net/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
> Sent: 21. mai 2010 21:32
> To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
>
> We are probably getting repetitive here, but to clarify my statements
> .... Indentation is overall a hindrance rather than a help to my coding
> productivity. The time and effort spent managing indentation is energy
> subtracted from developing working programs. I recognize that
> indentation helps sighted programmers. I have published much open
> source code over the years. If a sighted person expresses interest in
> it and has difficulty with the formatting, I will endeavor to serve a
> prettier version. I could just keep the software closed source and no
> one would know whether I indented it or not. I agree that indentation is
> a good practice. So are unit tests and various other things in software
> development. There are trade offs. Visual asthetics should not be
> elevated well above other factors. If an IDE was productive for me that
> automatically indented code, I would gladly accept that feature.
>
> Jamal
>
> On Fri, 21 May 2010, David
> Lant wrote:
>
> > Date: Fri, 21 May 2010 19:52:19 +0100
> > From: David Lant <david.lant1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Reply-To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >
> > Actually, I would disagree about the primary purpose of the code most of
> us
> > write. The compiler and operating system are themselves programs and
> hence
> > aesthetics should be of no consequence as you say. But that being the
> case,
> > why write in higher level languages at all then? Surely, if the primary
> > motivation for coding is getting the job done to the compiler's
> > satisfaction, then you may as well code in assembler.
> >
> > Almost every language mentioned on this list is specifically designed to
> be
> > human-readable. Therefore aesthetics become an integral part of coding.
> If
> > the code is unreadable, then it's unmaintainable. As I said before,
> > however, if there is no intention ever to have anyone else maintain the
> > code, then what the code looks like is entirely a personal matter. The
> > reality is, however, that this is an extremely rare situation. So a
> > reasonable amount of attention to formatting is indeed a basic expectation
> > these days.
> >
> > I'm not saying that you or anyone else who chooses not to indent code is
> > necessarily unprofessional or lax. But when someone asks if it is
> important
> > to indent code, the real-world answer for anyone who wants to do coding
> for
> > a living is, yes. My experience is that presenting someone else with
> > unformatted code has the same effect as presenting written material in
> poor
> > handwriting. It is no reflection of intelligence, but it is inevitably
> less
> > well received than something in good copper plate. :-)
> >
> > I would find it equally arrogant to think that because I'm blind, I don't
> > need to take any notice of sighted people's requirements. After all, like
> > it or not, they are by far in the majority.
> >
> > All the best,
> >
> > David
> >
> > David Lant
> > Applications analyst
> >
> > MCPD Enterprise Application Development 3.5
> > MCTS ASP.NET 3.5, ADO.NET 3.5, Windows Communication Foundation 3.5,
> Windows
> > Applications 3.5
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> > On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
> > Sent: 20 May 2010 21:56
> > To: program-l
> > Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >
> > I find that to be a rather arogant, judgmental statement. If a compiler
> > does not care about indentation, then clearly it is not important to the
> > functioning of the code, which is its ultimate purpose. Indentation is
> > almost inherently visual in its benefit (excepting a good braille reader
> > who gets something out of scanning down for changes in margin). Sighted
> > programmers do not use techniques just for the benfit of blind
> > programmers when they are not beneficial to themselves, and I am not
> > under such an obligation to them when working as an individual.
> >
> > I assure you that users of an application to not give a hoot how the
> > code is formatted: they care what the program does!
> >
> > Jamal
> > On Thu, 20
> > May 2010, Soronel Haetir wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 12:41:11 -0800
> >> From: Soronel Haetir <soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx>
> >> Reply-To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To: program-l <program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >>
> >> I see some degree of code formatting as being similar to choosing
> >> decent variable names and other such items. Not doing it shows either
> >> sloppiness or a lack of knowledge. That doesn't mean you have to be
> >> as consistent as a pretty printer would make it but not using
> >> indentation at all quickly makes code extremely difficult to follow
> >> and would make me question what other best practices the author
> >> tossed.
> >>
> >> Auto-generated code I see as being a different beast entirely. Sure,
> >> you might be able to do something more elegantly than the generated
> >> code, but you have to weigh that against the time required to do it
> >> yourself. A lot of the time that effort can be better spent
> >> elsewhere. In a way I see that being more similar to the arguments
> >> about whether to even use a compiler or to write things in assembly
> >> language. There are (rare) times when it is necessary to go to that
> >> level but usually the payoff isn't worth the price.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/20/10, Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>> An additional point is as follows. VS automatically indents code, but
> > why
> >>> should code asthetics be judged so heavily on that basis as some people
> >>> seem to imply (not targeted to anyone in particular)? VS also generates
> >>> reams of code, particularly the forms designer, when the same thing can
> >>> be accomplished more succinctly and elegantly in hand crafted code. If
> >>> someone is going to judge the asthetics of my code, I hope the whole
> >>> package is considered, not just a particular visual aspect -- one that
> > can
> >>> be readily changed with an auto formatter.
> >>>
> >>> Jamal
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, 20 May 2010,
> >>> Jamal Mazrui wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 16:17:03 -0400 (EDT)
> >>>> From: Jamal Mazrui <empower@xxxxxxxxx>
> >>>> Reply-To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >>>>
> >>>> I code almost exclusively in an editor I have developed, EdSharp,
> rather
> >>>> than
> >>>> in Visual Studio. Although I worked extensively on JAWS scripts for
> VS,
> > I
> >>>>
> >>>> find EdSharp more productive for me. I am speaking for myself, and
> have
> >>>> no
> >>>> problem with others preferring another environment, VS or otherwise.
> >>>>
> >>>> EdSharp does not automatically indent code because it does not know the
> >>>> structure of the language being used. So, indentation has to be
> managed
> >>>> manually. I have created hotkeys to help with this in various ways.
> For
> >>>> example, Alt+Home goes to the first nonblank character on the line.
> >>>> Control+I
> >>>> moves down to the next change in indentation, and Control+Shift+I moves
> >>>> upward. Alt+I announces the current indentation level. There are
> other
> >>>> hotkeys as well.
> >>>>
> >>>> So, it is quite possible to manually manage indentation in EdSharp, and
> > I
> >>>> do
> >>>> so with the Python language, which requires it. This does involve a
> >>>> significant amount of time and effort, however, which detracts from my
> >>>> coding
> >>>> productivity otherwise.
> >>>>
> >>>> I do try to use mnemonic variable names, and in fact, still prefer
> >>>> Hungarian
> >>>> notation (even though not the .NET convention) because I think it is
> >>>> helpful
> >>>> to know at least primitive data types when reading code. I often use a
> >>>> blank
> >>>> line to sepearate blocks, and make use of comments when there is a risk
> > of
> >>>>
> >>>> confusion about what code structure I am reading.
> >>>>
> >>>> As mentioned, my coding has been as an individual, not part of a team,
> > so
> >>>> I
> >>>> am not constrained the way others understandably are. I think that if
> a
> >>>> sighted person is truly interested in my code, it is a trivial matter
> to
> >>>> use
> >>>> an auto formatter to add the indentation style desired. Much more time
> >>>> would
> >>>> be involved in understanding what the code does conceptually than in
> >>>> applying
> >>>> an auto formatter for visual asthetics.
> >>>>
> >>>> I have coded with and without the need to manage indentation, and can
> > say
> >>>> with confidence that indentation is a productivity drain for me. The
> > fact
> >>>> that many blind people have difficulty programming in Python because of
> >>>> the
> >>>> indentation requirement is evidence of a similar experience for them.
> > The
> >>>>
> >>>> most important thing about code is whether it gets the job done, not
> how
> >>>> pretty it is. Of course, other things being equal, it is nice for code
> > to
> >>>> be
> >>>> pretty as well. I find that they are not equal, however, there is a
> > trade
> >>>>
> >>>> off, and I choose to work in nonvisual ways that work best for what I
> am
> >>>> trying to accomplish.
> >>>>
> >>>> Different strokes for different folks.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jamal
> >>>> On Thu, 20 May 2010, David Lant wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Date: Thu, 20 May 2010 20:49:10 +0100
> >>>>> From: David Lant <david.lant1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>> Reply-To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The thing is, I can't think of any reason why a blind developer should
> >>>>> not
> >>>>> indent though. You say it causes problems with moving to the start of
> > a
> >>>>> line, but that's a feature of the editor, not code indentation. e.g.
> > in
> >>>>> Visual Studio, if I hit the home key on a line of code, the first time
> > it
> >>>>> will take me to the first non-blank character on that line. the
> second
> >>>>> press will take me to the first column. It's so quick and easy to do
> > it
> >>>>> really isn't an overhead at all. And it does this without any JAWS
> >>>>> scripts
> >>>>> involved.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As I've mentioned elsewhere, where the editor automatically formats
> > code
> >>>>> as
> >>>>> you type it, indentation and formatting doesn't even become a
> >>>>> consideration
> >>>>> because it happens without your involvement. Even copying and pasting
> >>>>> code
> >>>>> automatically rearranges the layout to suit the code structures
> > involved.
> >>>>> Maybe I'm just spoiled by using Visual Basic. but having come from a
> >>>>> COBOL,
> >>>>> PL/1 and Natural background, manually indenting code just becomes a
> >>>>> habit.
> >>>>> Even on the mainframe I used to work on, the Natural editor used to
> >>>>> provide
> >>>>> structured formatting features. So it's nothing new. I've been
> >>>>> programming
> >>>>> for 24 years now, and I've never yet had a problem with it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I can understand how indentation might be distracting for a braille
> > user,
> >>>>> but depending on the width of the braille display, it wouldn't seem to
> > be
> >>>>>
> >>>>> a
> >>>>> major problem. After all, many source code editors allow code to
> > extend
> >>>>> beyond the average width of a braille display so I imagine you'd be
> >>>>> scrolling left and right to read long lines too, for example.
> >>>>> Indentation
> >>>>> wouldn't seem any worse than that to me. Having the ability to
> quickly
> >>>>> scan
> >>>>> down code to locate particular structures or blocks would seem
> >>>>> advantageous.
> >>>>> I have vaguely considered getting a braille display for the added
> >>>>> orientation information it might give. I guess I've got on without
> one
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> so long now though, it's not likely to happen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If you're just writing code for yourself, then one could say that all
> > the
> >>>>> normal good practice guidelines for coding could be ignored.
> > formatting,
> >>>>> meaningful variable names, commented code etc would all seem
> > unnecessary.
> >>>>> However, I challenge any developer to prove unequivocally that any
> code
> >>>>> they
> >>>>> write will never be seen by anyone else. Even in situations when I
> >>>>> thought
> >>>>> that was the case when writing a quick one-off utility or other, I've
> >>>>> always
> >>>>> ended up finding another use for it that someone else ends up seeing.
> > So
> >>>>>
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> the end it's just quicker and easier to code in a structured and
> >>>>> formatted,
> >>>>> well documented and human readable way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Having said all this, I do have to admit that the worst structured and
> >>>>> laid
> >>>>> out code I ever came across was written by a fully sighted person. It
> >>>>> was
> >>>>> so arcane and unmaintainable that it seemed like a deliberate ploy by
> >>>>> that
> >>>>> individual to make themselves indispensible. If they were the only
> >>>>> person
> >>>>> who could make head or tail of the code, then surely they'd always
> have
> > a
> >>>>> job? Well, auto-formatting and code analysis utilities soon put paid
> > to
> >>>>> that. :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> All the best,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David
> >>>>>
> >>>>> David Lant
> >>>>> Applications analyst
> >>>>>
> >>>>> MCPD Enterprise Application Development 3.5
> >>>>> MCTS ASP.NET 3.5, ADO.NET 3.5, Windows Communication Foundation 3.5,
> >>>>> Windows
> >>>>> Applications 3.5
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>> On Behalf Of Jamal Mazrui
> >>>>> Sent: 20 May 2010 12:47
> >>>>> To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> Cc: Amanda Lacy; Doug Lee
> >>>>> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Personally, as a speech-only user, I find indentation to be of no
> >>>>> benefit. In fact, I find it to be an efficiency drain in coding. I
> >>>>> cannot simply press Home to go to the start of code on a line. When
> >>>>> cutting and pasting code, it has to be adjusted to make indentation
> >>>>> align. I know there are hotkey work-arounds for this, but they
> involve
> >>>>> more effort than when indentation is not a concern. Rather than using
> >>>>> indentation to help me follow code structure, I find it more
> productive
> >>>>> to use a short in-line comment at the end of a block to remind me what
> >>>>> structure it is completing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With that said, I understand that indentation is needed for usability
> > of
> >>>>> code by sighted readers, as well as good braille readers (I read
> >>>>> braille but am too slow to benefit from a braille display if speech is
> >>>>> available). I realize that if I coded in a team, I would always have
> > to
> >>>>> indent my code. I also know that if I want a sighted person to work
> >>>>> with nontrivial code, I need to use an auto-formatter before sharing
> > it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just because indentation is optimal for sighted programmers does not
> >>>>> mean it is so for blind programmers. They do not use some of our
> >>>>> nonvisual techniques, and we do not need to use all their visual
> >>>>> techniques. In a language that does not require indentation, an
> >>>>> auto-formatter will indent more correctly than manually doing so.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jamal
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 5/19/2010 10:08 PM, Amanda Lacy wrote:
> >>>>>> Am I the only one who thinks indentation makes code harder to read? I
> >>>>>> focus on the information itself, and when much of my braille display
> >>>>>> is consumed by space I find it a destraction. I have yet to
> understand
> >>>>>> its use.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 5/19/10, Doug Lee<dgl@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>>>>> For what it's worth, I strongly prefer using tabs and not spaces:
> > Tab
> >>>>>>> width can be varied by the user with no changes to the code, using
> >>>>>>> tabs means one character per indent instead of the average three or
> >>>>>>> four spaces, tabs can be displayed as printable characters like ^I
> in
> >>>>>>> some editors in case checking indents is a problem for some reason,
> >>>>>>> and one can translate tabs to the normal two spaces before Brailling
> > a
> >>>>>>> listing if necessary. As a rule, if I see spaces for indenting in a
> >>>>>>> program, I imitate what's there if I'm making small changes, but I
> >>>>>>> replace them all with tabs if I'm taking over the file.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, May 19, 2010 at 02:35:45PM -0600, Tyler Littlefield wrote:
> >>>>>>> I had to switch the tabs to spaces in python, so that I could read
> >>>>>>> other code. No idea why edsharp defaults to tabs, and whether you'll
> >>>>>>> be aloud to use spaces, you have to use \40 I believe to get a
> space.
> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "?yvind Lode"
> >>>>>>> <oyvind.lode@xxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>> To:<program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 19, 2010 2:19 PM
> >>>>>>> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I currently don't have any preferred style of indentation.
> >>>>>>>> EdSharp defaults to tab indentation.
> >>>>>>>> But I feel it's a waste of cells on my Braille display he he.
> >>>>>>>> But I'll probably find my preferred way of indentation the more
> code
> >>>>>>>> I
> >>>>>>>> write.
> >>>>>>>> Reading source code written by other programmers is probably also a
> >>>>>>>> good
> >>>>>>>> idea.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of David Lant
> >>>>>>>> Sent: 19. mai 2010 21:13
> >>>>>>>> To: program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [program-l] Re: Indentation of code
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Yes, I always indent code. However, this may make it sound like I
> >>>>>>>> actually
> >>>>>>>> do anything to achieve this. Using Visual Studio, coding in either
> >>>>>>>> VB
> >>>>> or
> >>>>>>>> C#, it is possible to have the editor automatically do all the
> >>>>>>>> indenting for
> >>>>>>>> you, so you don't even need to think about it. This is especially
> >>>>>>>> well
> >>>>>>>> implemented for VB, but does appear for C# too.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> There is no reason at all why a blind developer shouldn't indent
> >>>>>>>> code.
> >>>>> It
> >>>>>>>> doesn't add any overhead to reading the code back, as any leading
> >>>>>>>> spaces can
> >>>>>>>> be ignored by a screen reader. If you really want to know how your
> >>>>>>>> code is
> >>>>>>>> indented, then I'm sure most if not all of them include a feature
> to
> >>>>> tell
> >>>>>>>> you what the indentation of the current line is.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> If you have a particular layout style that you like, which is
> >>>>>>>> different from
> >>>>>>>> that used by your editor of choice, you can always go into the
> >>>>>>>> Options
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> change the settings. The simplest thing of course is to change
> how
> >>>>> many
> >>>>>>>> spaces are indented and whether this is done by adding leading
> >>>>>>>> spaces or
> >>>>>>>> adding tabs. But there are other options you can play with as
> well,
> >>>>>>>> up
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>> and including turning off automatic formatting altogether.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Sighted people always prefer code to be formatted so they can
> easily
> >>>>> scan
> >>>>>>>> the layout and both identify the overall structure and locate
> >>>>>>>> particular
> >>>>>>>> constructs. So whether you're expecting to show code to a sighted
> >>>>>>>> person or
> >>>>>>>> not, I'd always recommend getting into the habit of indenting and
> >>>>>>>> formatting
> >>>>>>>> neatly.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> All the best,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> David Lant
> >>>>>>>> Applications analyst
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> MCPD Enterprise Application Development 3.5
> >>>>>>>> MCTS ASP.NET 3.5, ADO.NET 3.5, Windows Communication Foundation
> 3.5,
> >>>>>>>> Windows
> >>>>>>>> Applications 3.5
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>> From: program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> [mailto:program-l-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
> >>>>>>>> On Behalf Of ?yvind Lode
> >>>>>>>> Sent: 19 May 2010 16:55
> >>>>>>>> To: programmingblind@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; program-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>>> Subject: [program-l] Indentation of code
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Hi all:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm just wondering how you folks indent your code?
> >>>>>>>> Do you use indentation at all?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I know that indentation is not required for C#, but sighted folks
> >>>>>>>> prefer it.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Currently I don't have any code to share between sighted and blind
> >>>>>>>> programmers.
> >>>>>>>> I've just started learning to program and I use C#.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> I'm just curious and would like some pointers.
> >>>>>>>> I'm just trying to develop a good habit of how my code should look
> >>>>>>>> like.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
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> >>>>>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Doug Lee dgl@xxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>> http://www.dlee.org
> >>>>>>> SSB BART Group doug.lee@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>>>> http://www.ssbbartgroup.com
> >>>>>>> The very smart may feel they have nothing to learn from anyone;
> >>>>>>> The very wise will find something to learn from everyone. (7/14/01)
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> >>>>>>
> >>>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >>>>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >>>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >>>>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> ** and in the Subject line type
> >>>>> ** unsubscribe
> >>>>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >>>>> ** immediately-following link:-
> >>>>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >>>>> ** or send a message, to
> >>>>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >>>>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >>>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >>>>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>>> ** and in the Subject line type
> >>>>> ** unsubscribe
> >>>>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >>>>> ** immediately-following link:-
> >>>>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >>>>> ** or send a message, to
> >>>>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >>>>>
> >>>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >>>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >>>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >>>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> ** and in the Subject line type
> >>>> ** unsubscribe
> >>>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >>>> ** immediately-following link:-
> >>>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >>>> ** or send a message, to
> >>>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >>>>
> >>> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >>> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>> ** and in the Subject line type
> >>> ** unsubscribe
> >>> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >>> ** immediately-following link:-
> >>> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >>> ** or send a message, to
> >>> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Soronel Haetir
> >> soronel.haetir@xxxxxxxxx
> >> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> >> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> >> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> >> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> ** and in the Subject line type
> >> ** unsubscribe
> >> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> >> ** immediately-following link:-
> >> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> >> ** or send a message, to
> >> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >>
> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > ** and in the Subject line type
> > ** unsubscribe
> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> > ** immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> > ** or send a message, to
> > ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >
> > ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> > ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> > ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > ** and in the Subject line type
> > ** unsubscribe
> > ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> > ** immediately-following link:-
> > ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> > ** or send a message, to
> > ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
> >
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
>
> ** To leave the list, click on the immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=unsubscribe]
> ** If this link doesn't work then send a message to:
> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> ** and in the Subject line type
> ** unsubscribe
> ** For other list commands such as vacation mode, click on the
> ** immediately-following link:-
> ** [mailto:program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=faq]
> ** or send a message, to
> ** program-l-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the Subject:- faq
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