[opendtv] Re: Microsoft and the broadcast flag
- From: John Willkie <johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 21:05:54 -0400 (EDT)
I believe you are about to learn a lesson about Microsoft's mandatory driver
testing procedure for Vista/Server 2008.
Have you been able to get your legacy CD/DVD burning software to run under
Vista?
Have you noticed that CD/DVD burner software vendors have new versions of their
software that only run under Vista?
I have a consulting client that makes expensive devices that are only used in
professional broadcast and cable plants. The CEO of the company was telling me
at NAB of the 'fun' they were having because their drivers didn't run under
Vista or Server 2008, and the validation process at MS.
Notice, I didn't mention tuners or recording. I am told that DVD Shrink and
other DVD ripping software won't run under Vista. All I can say for sure is
that when I tried Server 2008 RC1 on my machine, everything worked and was
reliable until I decided to put my legacy copy of Nero on the box. Then, it
crashed all the time, and reported a problem with Nero.
Did you note in my (unanswered, but that's on him) questions to bert yesterday,
I mentioned that I thought PBDA-compliant tuners were mandatory in Vista? I
might be wrong (unlike bert).
Come to think of it, if you have a 65-bit Vista build, you have much more fun
than the above ahead of you. It will be interesting to see how long it is
until you have a tuner that works.
I'm not saying that work-arounds are impossible, but I hear they're difficult.
John Willkie
-----Original Message-----
>From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Jul 9, 2008 8:47 PM
>To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [opendtv] Re: Microsoft and the broadcast flag
>
>Why would I need to use PBDA?
>
>In any event I just built a new Vista 64 development machine and intend
>to add OTA/QAM recording capability to it somehow. But I don't intend
>to be asking any permission to play any protected content. So I'll
>report how it goes one of these days.
>
>- Tom
>
>
>John Willkie wrote:
>> when you assume, you make an ass out of u and me. And, technically, you are
>> presuming, not assuming.
>>
>> You are using a bert technique to invert what someone said to support a
>> preconceived, badly-thought (or no thinking involved) position.
>>
>> And, you will find out that you can't use a device on Vista that doesn't
>> support PBDA. But, PBDA 'protection' isn't invoked until after CGMS is
>> encountered in a program stream.
>>
>> And, just what is a MSFT device? They make Zune, Xboxes, I think they still
>> make mice. They don't make computers, nor do they make usdio devices. Was
>> this typed after the beginning of happy hour in the Barry household?
>>
>> That's the only rational explanation for so many errors of thought,
>> perception and understanding in such a short post. Perhaps rationality
>> isn't a precondition?
>>
>> Once again, something is happening here, and you don't know what it is, do
>> you, Mr. Jones?
>>
>> John Willkie
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Tom Barry <trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Sent: Jul 9, 2008 3:45 PM
>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Microsoft and the broadcast flag
>>>
>>> I assume it is a flag meaning you need a non-MSFT device and/or software
>>> to record the stream.
>>>
>>> - Tom
>>>
>>> Adam Goldberg wrote:
>>>> I confess, I'm not at all clear on what they mean by "broadcast protection
>>>> flag".
>>>>
>>>> I would understand if they wrote about "Broadcast Flag". Except in this
>>>> case they talk about what HBO is doing -- so that's clearly NOT what they
>>>> mean. HBO doesn't broadcast ATSC OTA, so whatever they mean it isn't the
>>>> Broadcast Flag (because HBO /cannot/ assert the BF, as it's an A/65-only
>>>> construct).
>>>>
>>>> Furthermore, "... indicate that the show is copy protected" means, among
>>>> other things, that we're NOT talking about the BF (which does NOT signal
>>>> copy protection).
>>>>
>>>> They could be defining "broadcast protection flag" as CGMS={copy never} or
>>>> CGMS={copy never | copy once}. But I dunno.
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>>>> Behalf Of Manfredi, Albert E
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2008 3:32 PM
>>>> To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Subject: [opendtv] Re: Microsoft and the broadcast flag
>>>>
>>>> There are any number of Microsoft references that show that WM applies
>>>> some sort of copy protection filtering for CGMS and Broadcast Flag
>>>> encoded TV streams, at least over Vista. But I was looking for something
>>>> that stated explicitly that, according to Microsoft, the BF means that
>>>> the content must not be copied.
>>>>
>>>> So, even the most unabashed of self-important fools can now understand
>>>> that what is transmitted with the BF flag asserted is treated, by
>>>> current WMP, as if it were CGMS copy-never.
>>>>
>>>> The result being, even if FOTA DTV broadcasters in principle "don't
>>>> intend" the BF to violate the Betamax decision, when playing through
>>>> Vista, it does.
>>>>
>>>> --------------------------------
>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/faq/sync.mspx
>>>>
>>>> Q. Why can't I sync some of my TV shows to my device?
>>>>
>>>> A. Television broadcasters can prevent you from synchronizing a show to
>>>> a device by setting a "broadcast protection flag" for the show.
>>>> Currently, HBO sets the flag for some programming, and other
>>>> broadcasters might begin using the flag in the future. If you cannot
>>>> sync a certain show to your device, check the program information for
>>>> the show on your computer. If the broadcaster has set the broadcast
>>>> protection flag, the listing will indicate that the show is
>>>> copy-protected.
>>>> --------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> Or, to use the 2X4-on-the-head technique, as far as Microsoft is
>>>> concerned, the Redistribution Control Descriptor is to be interpreted as
>>>> "copy never."
>>>>
>>>> The FCC should perhaps send them a note.
>>>>
>>>> Bert
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>> --
>>> Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>--
>Tom Barry trbarry@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
>
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