[opendtv] Re: 2.35:1 on 16:9 screen (was: Mobile TV coming of age)
- From: "Barry Wilkins" <Barry.Wilkins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 14:48:37 +1200
Yes John,
I see what you're saying. Let me state with an example how annoying the
distortion can be. If you have seen the acclaimed Shrek movie you will
recall a scene where Donkey and Shrek are sitting on a rock/hill top at
night with the Moon centre stage in the background. The moon is low on
the horizon and so looks rather large. But the moon is not round - it is
an EGG! This is ridiculous, and this is done to squeeze in the side
information. I am not concerned with the sides. What concerns me is a
completely unnatural looking Moon in the centre. Sure, I could put up
with a smaller image - about 60% of my screen height, but then (joke) I
need binoculars to see the movie.
Barry =20
-----Original Message-----
From: John Willkie [mailto:johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxx]=20
Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2004 6:22 a.m.
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 2.35:1 on 16:9 screen (was: Mobile TV coming of
age)
Just another nit. I believe where you say "while retaining complete
proportionality" the safer phrasing would be "while appearing to retain
proportionality." Some of these technologies are quite sophisticated at
masking what they are doing, but if one is familiar with the content
after
having seen it on a monitor that does not distort, I would venture that
it's
a cinch to see what changes when it's been transmogrified in one of
these
displays.
Me, having seen tv on non-deliberately-distorted sets for all my life, I
have problems sometimes recognizing stars when I visit a shop with
distorto
sets. They can brag about their technology all they want, but that
doesn't
fool my eyes: their sets do.
John Willkie
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Barry Wilkins
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2004 2:29 AM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 2.35:1 on 16:9 screen (was: Mobile TV coming of
age)
Thanks John,
I've just seen the cure. Yes, Panasonic do produce a proportional zoom
on their DVD players. I have just witnessed a demonstration in a local
shop. It is the model DV S35. Perhaps all Panasonic models have this
function. It has a very good facility. You could increment up and down
in small steps using the jog control, while retaining complete
proportionality. This unit was at a bargain price of NZ$169. I suppose
that's around US$90.
Barry wilkins
-----Original Message-----
From: John Willkie [mailto:johnwillkie@xxxxxxxxxx]=3D20
Sent: Thursday, 15 July 2004 3:44 a.m.
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 2.35:1 on 16:9 screen (was: Mobile TV coming of
age)
Barry;
Just a point of clarification. "Pan and scan" is/was a kludgy way of
adapting widescreen content to 4:3 sets. As the term implies, the 4:3
area
within the widescreen frame changes to always show the action.
It's not, to my knowledge, something that you can see with a DVD, and
the
practice is rare to see these days.
John Willkie
-----Original Message-----
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Barry Wilkins
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2004 10:33 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 2.35:1 on 16:9 screen (was: Mobile TV coming of
age)
Jeroen,
Please excuse a degree of naivety and ignorance on my part. I am not
familiar with picture encoding for DVD. Therefore what follows is
presumption.
Regarding the availability of 16:9 content, I mean pan and scan, ie.
16:9 non letterboxed. We do not get a lot of this format here,(New
Zealand). So, my understanding is, the DVDs are encoded with a
widescreen image to preserve the theatrical aspect. This I presume,
means that data bits are used only where there is picture information.
To then expand this 2.35:1 aspect information to fill a 16:9 screen
proportionally will I imagine reduce the resolution dramatically because
for the screens dimensions there is a large loss of mainly horizontal
pixel information.
Cheers
Barry
-----Original Message-----
From: jeroen.stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx =3D
[mailto:jeroen.stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx]=3D3D20
Sent: Wednesday, 14 July 2004 11:10 p.m.
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 2.35:1 on 16:9 screen (was: Mobile TV coming of
age)
Hello,
Barry Wilkins asked:
> I have a question about the latest Philips 42PF9966 42" plasma TVs.
Not to be mistaken with the Philips 42PF9986 42" LCD TVs !!
> It concerns the ability or otherwise of being able to expand a
> 2.35:1 aspect image to fill the screen vertically while retaining
> the correct proportionality of images, i.e. simply eliminating
> some of the width to result in 16:9 aspect.
There is no such thing as "simply eliminating some of the width" !
Only when there are empty side pillars, or when the picture content
is protected by pan-scan vectors, could one safely cut off some of
the side information. We have chosen not to do this in our TVs.
> I find the present models will not allow this.
Have you ever seen a consumer TV/monitor/display that does this,
other than by setting up the geometry through some expert menu ?
> They either fill the screen but distort the images horizontally,
Yes, in the "automatic aspect ratio adaptation mode" it will do
vertical zoom up to an aspect ratio of 18:9. The width remains
constant. The source sends out a 16:9 signal, so the aspect ratio
will then be distorted by a maximum factor of 18/16 =3D3D3D 1.125.
> or you have the black bars top and bottom.
As it was written on the DVD... The source is the boss !
> I know that many people may prefer to see the whole width but
> I would be perfectly content with a larger image that made full
> use of the screens proportions.
I don't know that. I only remember fierce discussions in this list
about the harm of having a few percent of overscan. This is not a
subject that I would like to burn my fingers on again. ;-)
> So, does this new model allow proportional expansion in both planes?
No, unless maybe in the service menu. But not as you would like it.
> Do you know if there will be a larger content of source material
> in 16:9 aspect? I find that documentaries/drama on DVDs from the
> UK/Europe have a larger proportion of 16:9 content. Also, the
> quality is generally perfecto!
From where are you calling ? 90% of my DVD collection is in 16:9
"anamorphic" format, and a good part of that still has some black
bars on the top and bottom. The prices are according to the quality.
I want to buy Season 7 of "Buffy", a 6-disc DVD set, uncensored (!),
16:9 and all, but the price of 90 Euro (approx. 110 dollar) is still
holding me back. Here you get what you pay for.
(Craig, is Santa subscribed to OpenDTV too ? Santa, do you read me ?)
> I am very interested in one of these new screens but it is a large
> investment for an item that for the majority of the time may not be
> utilized efficiently in terms of picture height.
You want to wait for screens that are wider than 16:9 ?
That should draw Craig into an interesting discussion... ;-)
It shouldn't be too difficult to write software for controlling
the scalers to do what you want, but I doubt that our product
management would see that as a wise move. I could suggest it.
> The resolution of the 42PF9966 is I think 1366 X 768. This must be an
> NEC type display rather than the Fujitsu 1024 X 1024 type used in
> earlier models. Is this prefered because the Alis screen was
interlaced
> and the new one progressive?
No, you are confusing it with the 42PF9986, which is a 42" WXGA LCD.
The 42PF9966 has the 1kx1k ALiS. There is a 50PF9966 50" WXGA plasma
with a NEC display. There is no ALiS available in that size.
Greetings,
-- Jeroen.
|-----------------------------+---------------------------------------|
| From: Jeroen H. Stessen | E-mail: Jeroen.Stessen@xxxxxxxxxxx |
|-----------------------------+---------------------------------------|
| Building: SFJ-5.22 Eindhoven| Philips Digital Systems Laboratories |
|-----------------------------+---------------------------------------|
| Phone: ++31.40.27.32739 | Visiting & mail address: Glaslaan 2 |
|-----------------------------+---------------------------------------|
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