[opendtv] Re: 1080P Question
- From: "Mike Tsinberg" <mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 15:10:15 +0000
No, common mistake created by marketing.
Both current HDTV (rec 709) and xvYCC are 8 bit systems.§The color gamut for
HDTV, of each Red, Green and Blue colors is designed within BT.709 standard for
16 to 236 level systems or 220 quantization levels. 16 to 236 is a legacy issue
for component YCrCb.A fullydigital interface, such as HDMI, is capable of a
full 0 to 255 performance without increasing the 8 bitsper color
specification.The xvYCC is a new color gamut standard that uses the fullrange
of values from 0 to 255 or 256 quantizatiuon levels in an 8-bit space to
represent colors.I included a picture of color space comparison.
Deep color increases bit dpth from 24 bits per pixel (8 bit per color) to 36
bits ( 12 bit per color). Either 709 or xvYCC can be used with deep color.
Perhaps "deep color" is missleading. It should be called probaly "accurate or
deep gray" or something.
Mike Tsinberg
http://www.keydigital.com
-----Original Message-----
From: ShLampen [mailto:shlampen@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, September 9, 2009 01:09 AM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080P Question
Wait a minute!
I thought xvYCC WAS "deep color" and currently comes in three flavors:
8-bit (24-bit RGB), 12-bit (36-bit RGB) and 16-bit (48-bit RGB), with the last
one offering 281,474,976,710,656 possible colors.
Also, it was my understanding that the first "deep color" device was not a
BluRay player but the Sony PlayStation 3.
Am I wrong??
Steve Lampen
Belden
In a message dated 09/04/09 13:31:20 Pacific Daylight Time, mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
writes:
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font-family:Arial}a.aolmailheader:link {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;
font-weight:normal}a.aolmailheader:visited {color:magenta;
text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}a.aolmailheader:active
{color:blue; text-decoration:underline;
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text-decoration:underline; font-weight:normal}Yes unfortunately there is no
transition or any guards against xvYCC to 709 miss-conversion... It seems xvYCC
as well Deep Color and Dolby Tru HD features of HDMI 1.3 may only be
implemented in Blu Ray and only be displayed on devices that are capable. For
the rest of the media distribution infrstratute it is mission impossible. Even
in Schubin's Super High Quality digital theater system it is not happening...
Mike Tsinberg
http://www.keydigital.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kilroy Hughes [mailto:Kilroy.Hughes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2009 02:11 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080P Question
But, how bad does it look when content is encoded xvYCC and the display (or
something else in the signal chain) clips negative RGB coefficients to Rec 709
gamut?
I?m struggling with that chicken/egg problem for Internet delivered content. It
might be possible to write new rules for a new channel and new devices, but if
those files land on legacy devices or plug into legacy displays resulting in
people have green faces ? I don?t see a bridge to transition from a 709 to
xvYCC world of content and devices. Well, if all render devices recognized
xvYCC content and displays, and could convert to 709 output if xvYCC isn?t
supported, then it would work ? but requiring that of all devices (which
eliminates most existing devices) isn?t likely.
Kilroy Hughes
From: opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:opendtv-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of Mike Tsinberg
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 11:25 AM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080P Question
When source and display are both at xvYCC the results are sepctacular!
Mike Tsinberg
http://www.keydigital.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Schubin [mailto:TVMark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2009 12:39 PM
To: opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080P Question
We transmit based on Rec. 709 (HD color space). Digital-cinema theaters may
transcode to whatever works best for them.
TTFN,
Mark
Mike Tsinberg wrote:
So practical use of 1080p/60 for transmission is questionable at best. This
format is in use for display of Mark Schubin events. Have these events utilize
the xvYCC color space or HDTV color space?
Mike Tsinberg
http://www.keydigital.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Schubin [mailto:TVMark@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 06:22 PM
To:opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080P Question
"Rent" was 1080p24.
TTFN,
Mark
Mark Schubin wrote:
1080i for all the ones I've worked on.
TTFN,
Mark
Mike Tsinberg wrote:
In live per view event what is the transmitted format?
Best Regards,
Mike Tsinberg
http://www.keydigital.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: John Shutt [mailto:shuttj@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 03:21 PM
To:opendtv@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080P Question
1080p60 in a theater setting is useful for live Pay Per View events. John -----
Original Message ----- From: "Mike Tsinberg" To: Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009
2:04 PM Subject: [opendtv] Re: 1080P Question In that case I see a motion
problem. If original film is captured with 24 frames/sec and converted to
1080p/60 frames/sec for display - the motion will have 2 /3 pull down type of
motion jitter. On the other hand 24 frames/sec film displayed at 72 Hz or 96 Hz
will not have such problems. So what is the point to display 1080p/60 in the
movie theater? Best Regards, Mike Tsinberg Key Digital Systems Cell:
646-391-7537 email:mike@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx://www.keydigital.com/
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