Joel and Lars, I think there is merit to both sides of this debate. I will take it a different direction. It seems pretty clear to me that urbanization and adaptation occurring with some megafauna is directly correlated to population size, which in most cases can be traced directly to human impacts and persecution. Let's start with ravens, wolves, coyotes and even Bald Eagle as examples. These organisms are generalists in terms of habitat and they are for the most part opportunistic carnivores. So long as some animal is dying or there to hunt, they are eating. They are not tied to specific habitats or prey/food bases. Take away historic human persecution and global scale environmental poisoning (DDT) and there seems to be no obvious barrier to these creatures reaching their respective carrying capacities. Clearly, when wolves and coyotes start coming into more frequent and mutually threatening contact with humans, there will be some human push back. This normally translates to some form of bounty hunting or eradication. Black birds in general have always been a bit reviled in large part due to their color. As a result, they've been shot at for no reason other than killing them. No one ever baked them in a pie, at least not on this side of the pond. It may be that the expansions of some of these animals into areas of significant human density will inspire another round of human push back. This is already happening in response to the growing population of and recolonization of former range by North American wolves. Many of the examples Joel pointed to are species that are more specialized with regard to habitat and prey/food base. There is no reason to believe that Greater Sage-Grouse ever occupied more than a particular habitat niche. Barred Owl is certainly a generalist in terms of habitat requirements, but there is no indication that Spotted Owl was ever this adaptable. I haven't done any study of wolverines, fishers, pine martens, but it would surprise me to learn that any of these species ever ranged as far and wide as the coyote or the wolf. I can't speak for Lars, but I did not get the impression from his original post that he believes all of the globe's megafauna can or will find a way live in concert with dense human population. I do agree with him on one point. The fact that at least some of these animals are able to thrive in and around urban area can be viewed as "good news" from the standpoint that it suggests they are getting closer to their natural carrying capacity. Prior to the era of high-powered hunting rifles and helicopter tracking and shooting, wolves likely did quite well around the fringes of dense human settlement. Any time someone makes a general point, it's not hard to come up with specific exceptions that are contrary to that more general point. Lars was painting with a broad brush and referencing a rather narrow group of creatures that seem to be more adaptable than most. He wasn't donning his rose-colored glasses and suggesting that all is well with the natural world. Finally, it is widely believed that cockroaches and black rats will inherit the Earth. Are we prepared to say to ourselves that these are lesser creatures than the fisher, the pine marten, or the Oregon Vesper Sparrow, or that their ability to adapt and persist side-by-side with humans has no value when compared to those organisms that can't adapt in a similar fashion? The fact that some if not many organisms can adapt to living in urban or semi-urban areas should not be treated as an 'inconvenient truth' that should be ignored because it somehow undermines the conservation efforts directed at those creatures that are less adaptable. One has nothing to do with the other. Unfortunately, conservation efforts succeed or fail on the basis how much fear, concern, and emotional response we can generate among those who will fund and do the work. You can point to this in the spending of millions looking for the Ivory-billed Woodpecker (already extinct) and took away money and effort that would have been better invested in the effort to save extant populations. Of course we all wanted to believe that somehow this magnificent creature was still in our midst. What it would have taken to get folks equally excited about a couple of little dirt-brown birds in the Willamette Valley (Oregon Vesper Sparrow and Streaked Horned Lark)? Not happening! I've always felt that it's slippery slope when we start applying human value judgments or value hierarchies to organisms. In the grand scheme of things, is there a difference between the value of a European Starling and the value of a Giant Panda? I don't think so, but try making that argument with the average person. Dave Irons Portland, OR