I miss the Foak Table weekends after RMOUG as well. They went on for
almost 15 years. It wasn't the skiing. It wasn't the mountains. It
wasn't the snow. It was the friends, and the way we occupied our
home-away-from-home for the weekend. It was meeting at a bar as the
conference ended. It was driving up from Denver in a snowstorm,
crossing over the pass just before it closed. It was adapting to two
mile high altitude. It was the truly mountainous stashes of booze and
food. It was keeping the home fires burning. It was posing for a photo
on the continental divide in a punishing cold gale wind. It was the hot
tubbing through the night. It was the mad dash for the airport and
home. But most of all it was the unforgettable people, all of us and
our friends and family members. It was sharing. Of the dozens if not
hundreds of people who shared those chilly weekends, I hope only warm
thoughts remain.
On 12/17/2020 4:44 PM, Carol Dacko wrote:
I'm afraid my thread on Colorado would be too long. Suffice it to say, I miss our gatherings after RMOUG in the mountains. I will always get a kick out of Idaho Springs. And I loved the last lodge we stayed at in Breckenridge the best. Mostly because of the walking trails and I could keep a fire going the entire time.
Love hearing about all of your travels and somehow James, I missed your move to Austin. Never been.
Carol
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 7:22 PM Melanie Caffrey <melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
After reading this, my takeaway is that anyone who either follows,
or even thinks about, following someone around all day to ask such
questions of each person with whom the followed person interacts
is actually allowing the world to learn much more about
him/herself, than they are about the followed person.
On Thu, Dec 17, 2020 at 2:24 PM Mark W. Farnham <mwf@xxxxxxxx
<mailto:mwf@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Andy: Nail. Hit on head. +42.
An interesting side note is Farnham’s observation on Jacobs’
conjecture (any way you slice society, each group will
contain an equal proportion of assholes), is that we tend to
discount assholes from our own arbitrary slice (we’re not like
that) and over-notice assholes from slices to which we do not
belong. Ergo, the bumper stickers, because it really only
takes a few “ugly American” arrivals to forge an indelible
impression.
Jacobs also provides us with an operational definition of an
asshole: If you could follow someone around all day and ask
each person with whom they interact: Do you feel better or
worse, having had that interaction? THEN: if more feel better
than worse, not an asshole. Otherwise: Asshole.
In writing the asshole is bowdlerized to “inconvenient
person.” I hope that I am not one, but you really can’t tell
by yourself.
Anyway, I really enjoyed your assessment. I have a
sister-in-law in San Marino and a daughter, son-in-law, and
grandson in Echo Park. They are all lovely persons.
mwf
*From:*oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>] *On Behalf Of *Andrew
Zitelli
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 16, 2020 7:50 PM
*To:* oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Melanie Caffrey
*Subject:* [oaktable] Re: James started a trend ...
As a native Californian, born and raised in Palo Alto, this
has been an interesting thread. From Palo Alto I moved to
Berkeley for college and then fled the state for a few years.
I returned in 1983 so I have lived here a total of 60 years.
Here is my two cents.
The population of California is not a uniform population of
arrogant jerks, it just has a disproportionately large number
of them. There are large differences in culture and attitude
throughout various parts of the state. The culture of the Bay
Area is drastically different than Southern California, the
Central Valley, and the small towns in the far northern part
of the state. Although some in the Bay Area consider
themselves morally superior to those in Southern California, I
actually prefer So. Cal. Having lived in each for almost 30
years, I find people in the South are less politically
combative. I live on a block with Democrats, Republicans,
Libertarians, PETA members and NRA members. We disagree on
many things but we all get along, help each other and hang out
together with no hard feelings or animosity. This was the
case in Palo Alto and Berkeley in the 1960s, but is much less
so today. I was recently introduced to someone in Palo Alto
as living in Orange County. The response was "how can you
live there, there are Republicans there." He knew nothing
about me. I concluded he was a moron.
What does all this mean? From my perspective, Californians
moving to other parts of the country are not equally
dangerous. I suspect a family moving from Bakersfield or
Fresno would quickly blend into Idaho or Colorado or New
Mexico, without bringing along too many bad side effects. On
the other hand, if I lived in Texas or Oklahoma and someone
moved in next door from San Francisco or Los Gatos or Santa
Monica I might be wary.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:58 PM Melanie Caffrey
<melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
31 years of living in CO for me. With my parents having
lived in CO since 1969. So, basically I have spent some
amount of time in CO every year, since 1969. :) (I am old.)
One of the most heartbreaking incidents for me was
Amendment 2 being passed (then thankfully overturned,
albeit in a very publicly shameful way) and having public
figures make calls to "boycott Colorado". From 1992 to
1996, CO was labeled the "hate state". Sometimes it still is.
In the 70's and 80's, CO did not have a huge amount of big
business or big money. It was just a sleepy little state
with some good ski resorts, lots of crunchy granola
peace-love-type people (like many people I know and am
related to :) ), and the occasional conservative group
that didn't find a huge legitimizing stronghold (even with
the state's strong military presence.) Lots of
blue-collar industry. Tech was only just beginning to
spin up.
When James Dobson made his way into the city in which I
grew up, my eyes were completely opened to the fact that
not everything California brought to our state held the
possibility of improvement. Scars like this have healed
slowly for many. And many left Colorado Springs and
Colorado because of it. :(
People joke (and I do, too) that Texans comprise quite a
bit of tourism. But, it's a long-standing joke.
Colorado, as a whole, loves its tourism dollar.
Confrontations like the one Mark had are few and far
between. I've thankfully never seen or heard of that
happening to anyone before.
The biggest complaint I ever heard from Coloradans about
Californians was "lack of manners". They said so about
Texans as well, but Texans simply brought a
larger-than-life enthusiasm, in my experience. I found
them warm and sincere. I did not find that to always be
the case about Californians when I was growing up in CO.
The relationship between CA and CO has definitely been
getting better in recent years, however. Especially
since, in this day and age, hardly anyone is actually
"from" any place, any more. :)
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:57 PM Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman
<dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
After living for 35 years in Colorado, the most common
complaint we had about Californians in Colorado was
McMansions and the "sea of roofs" in Highlands Ranch
and Parker. It seemed so miserable to live in a place
with a 5000 sq ft. house on a 3000 sq ft. lot or try
to navigate the series of bizarre, screwy roads and
cul de sacs! It definitely kept me North of 88th Ave,
that's for sure... :)
My parents live in Medford, OR, just north of the
California border. The change to the orchards and
agriculture that made Harry and David's famous to one
of vineyards by the 100's is a stark contrast vs. what
they moved to over 3 decades ago. The biggest
challenge they face is folks coming up and purchasing
large ticket items as Oregon doesn't have sales tax.
Although Oregon and Washington have a friendlier
connection, there are those that complain that folks
buy land in Washington to avoid the higher property
tax, but shop in Oregon for the same reason. :)
*Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman*
DBAKevlar Blog <http://dbakevlar.com>
about.me/dbakevlar <http://about.me/dbakevlar>
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 11:34 AM Melanie Caffrey
<melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
Welll, it really does depend on what one means by
"ruining their way of life."
To be fair, most Californians are simply living
their lives and have nothing to do with what other
wealthy, powerful Californians are doing in other
states.
Many Coloradans take issue with hate legislation
being attempted in their state by powerful
Californians who come in and have the means to do
so. The few making it difficult and giving the
many a bad name, and all that.
I'm on the side of many Coloradans. I,
personally, like hanging out with many different
types of people and don't want to see them
threatened in any way. Threatening people I care
about can be categorized as "ruining my way of life."
And if Oregonians happen to take similar issue
with such legislation. Why, then, I'm on their
side, as well. (I'm not really sure what problems
Oregon has with California.)
On the other hand, I don't have a problem with
raising taxes and creating infrastructure.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 7:32 AM Kellyn
Pot'Vin-Gorman <dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
In our travels for over two years in the RV, I
noticed no matter what state you were in,
there was always an influx of people from
another state or area that long-time residents
are sure are ruining their way of life.
The thing that got me about California is what
you see on media covers so little of the land
that it encompasses. There are great little
towns that are significant for their
agricultural contributions and such a wide
variety of eco-systems. I really do love our
time there and the difference in the lifestyle
between living in Eureka vs. Palm Desert vs.
Sacramento or San Diego. I’m also perfectly
happy skipping LA altogether, whenever
possible. :)
Tim and I will still be taking the RV down
south for the winter when we’re tired of the
rain in January-April, so I’m glad for
California just south of us, even if the
Californians keep moving up here and changing
Oregon. :)
Kellyn
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM Melanie
Caffrey <melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
And oddly enough I am a California native,
though I've spent most of my life,
cumulatively, living elsewhere. :)
Though if I do ever find myself living in
CA again, I'll be doing so sans bumper
sticker. :)
Seriously, though, Austin is very cool.
Congrats to you and yours!
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 10:03 PM James
Morle <james@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:james@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I consider myself a little over 10%
Californian :)
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 12:13 PM
Melanie Caffrey
<melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>I guess every state has its share
of inconvenient persons.
Oh, most definitely. And though I
don't condone what those
passengers did, I know it comes
from a long storied history of
feeling disrespected in their own
state.
I also generally don't like bumper
stickers as they are mostly a form
of passive aggression.
Fun fact. The guy who made and
distributed (or who is purported
to have done so) that "Native"
bumper sticker that many
Coloradans are proud to sport on
their vehicles, was born and
raised in Utah.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 5:51 AM
Mark W. Farnham <mwf@xxxxxxxx
<mailto:mwf@xxxxxxxx>> wrote:
OK. True story. My first time
visiting Colorado was for
“Keystone I” the first OAUG
meeting managed by Meeting
Expectations. (1991, late
winter, only the A basin was
still open, thankfully not far
uphill from Keystone.)
A car with flashing highbeams
pulls even in the passing lane
and we’re getting the bird
from all the passengers and
they are screaming “Go back to
Texas!” We’re confused. I roll
down the window. We’re from
New Hampshire. Why did you
think we were from Texas? And
why don’t you like Texans?
So they stop gesticulating and
one says your license plate
says Texas. Oh – it’s a
rental. He goes on Texans clog
up our ski areas and buy
drinks for all the prettiest
girls. Then they went faster.
Bumper sticker: “Don’t
Californicate Colorado.” I met
a lot of nice people in
Colorado. I guess every state
has its share of inconvenient
persons.
mwf
*From:*oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
*On Behalf Of *John Beresniewicz
*Sent:* Saturday, December 12,
2020 12:07 PM
*To:* oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Cc:* douglas rady
*Subject:* [oaktable] Re:
James started a trend ...
Back in the early 80’s I was
in Seattle at the UW and
already the phrase “Don’t
Californicate Washington” was
circulating.
JB
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:37
AM Tim Gorman
<tim.evdbt@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:tim.evdbt@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
Years ago, there was a
saying in Colorado that
"happiness was a Texan
heading south with a
Californian under each arm".
Who would have thought
that California would
become the new New Jersey?
-Joisey boy
On 12/11/2020 6:42 PM,
douglas rady wrote:
Yes, Oregon and
Washington have
suffered for years
from fleeing
Californians who then
(intentionally or not)
attempt to replicate
the same circumstances
that drove them out of
CA to begin with.
On Friday, December
11, 2020, Mark W.
Farnham <mwf@xxxxxxxx
<mailto:mwf@xxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
And his property value
just jumped
significantly.
Congratulations, James.
Now the real challenge
will be the very real
threat of tax refugees
from California
paradoxically wanting
an income tax.
I have failed in many
of my efforts to keep
New Hampshire New
Hampshire, but so far
our tax refugees from
Massachusetts and New
Jersey have not been
able to get past our
constitution on that
one. (We don’t have
many New York tax
refugees; they tend to
move to Burlington,
VT. Probably they are
thinking: “That worked
out nicely for Bernie.”)
Anyway Texas, en garde
and good luck!
mwf
*From:*oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
[mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]
*On Behalf Of *douglas
rady
*Sent:* Friday,
December 11, 2020 4:47 PM
*To:*
oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [oaktable]
James started a trend ...
ORCL moving HQ to AUS
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/11/oracle-is-moving-its-headquarters-from-silicon-valley-to-austin-texas.html
<https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/11/oracle-is-moving-its-headquarters-from-silicon-valley-to-austin-texas.html>
--
*Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman*
DBAKevlar Blog <http://dbakevlar.com>
about.me/dbakevlar <http://about.me/dbakevlar>
