Andy: Nail. Hit on head. +42.
An interesting side note is Farnham’s observation on Jacobs’ conjecture (any
way you slice society, each group will contain an equal proportion of
assholes), is that we tend to discount assholes from our own arbitrary slice
(we’re not like that) and over-notice assholes from slices to which we do not
belong. Ergo, the bumper stickers, because it really only takes a few “ugly
American” arrivals to forge an indelible impression.
Jacobs also provides us with an operational definition of an asshole: If you
could follow someone around all day and ask each person with whom they
interact: Do you feel better or worse, having had that interaction? THEN: if
more feel better than worse, not an asshole. Otherwise: Asshole.
In writing the asshole is bowdlerized to “inconvenient person.” I hope that I
am not one, but you really can’t tell by yourself.
Anyway, I really enjoyed your assessment. I have a sister-in-law in San Marino
and a daughter, son-in-law, and grandson in Echo Park. They are all lovely
persons.
mwf
From: oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On ;
Behalf Of Andrew Zitelli
Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2020 7:50 PM
To: oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; Melanie Caffrey
Subject: [oaktable] Re: James started a trend ...
As a native Californian, born and raised in Palo Alto, this has been an
interesting thread. From Palo Alto I moved to Berkeley for college and then
fled the state for a few years. I returned in 1983 so I have lived here a
total of 60 years. Here is my two cents.
The population of California is not a uniform population of arrogant jerks, it
just has a disproportionately large number of them. There are large
differences in culture and attitude throughout various parts of the state. The
culture of the Bay Area is drastically different than Southern California, the
Central Valley, and the small towns in the far northern part of the state.
Although some in the Bay Area consider themselves morally superior to those in
Southern California, I actually prefer So. Cal. Having lived in each for
almost 30 years, I find people in the South are less politically combative. I
live on a block with Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, PETA members and NRA
members. We disagree on many things but we all get along, help each other and
hang out together with no hard feelings or animosity. This was the case in
Palo Alto and Berkeley in the 1960s, but is much less so today. I was recently
introduced to someone in Palo Alto as living in Orange County. The response
was "how can you live there, there are Republicans there." He knew nothing
about me. I concluded he was a moron.
What does all this mean? From my perspective, Californians moving to other
parts of the country are not equally dangerous. I suspect a family moving from
Bakersfield or Fresno would quickly blend into Idaho or Colorado or New Mexico,
without bringing along too many bad side effects. On the other hand, if I
lived in Texas or Oklahoma and someone moved in next door from San Francisco or
Los Gatos or Santa Monica I might be wary.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:58 PM Melanie Caffrey <melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
31 years of living in CO for me. With my parents having lived in CO since
1969. So, basically I have spent some amount of time in CO every year, since
1969. :) (I am old.)
One of the most heartbreaking incidents for me was Amendment 2 being passed
(then thankfully overturned, albeit in a very publicly shameful way) and having
public figures make calls to "boycott Colorado". From 1992 to 1996, CO was
labeled the "hate state". Sometimes it still is.
In the 70's and 80's, CO did not have a huge amount of big business or big
money. It was just a sleepy little state with some good ski resorts, lots of
crunchy granola peace-love-type people (like many people I know and am related
to :) ), and the occasional conservative group that didn't find a huge
legitimizing stronghold (even with the state's strong military presence.) Lots
of blue-collar industry. Tech was only just beginning to spin up.
When James Dobson made his way into the city in which I grew up, my eyes were
completely opened to the fact that not everything California brought to our
state held the possibility of improvement. Scars like this have healed slowly
for many. And many left Colorado Springs and Colorado because of it. :(
People joke (and I do, too) that Texans comprise quite a bit of tourism. But,
it's a long-standing joke. Colorado, as a whole, loves its tourism dollar.
Confrontations like the one Mark had are few and far between. I've thankfully
never seen or heard of that happening to anyone before.
The biggest complaint I ever heard from Coloradans about Californians was "lack
of manners". They said so about Texans as well, but Texans simply brought a
larger-than-life enthusiasm, in my experience. I found them warm and sincere.
I did not find that to always be the case about Californians when I was growing
up in CO.
The relationship between CA and CO has definitely been getting better in recent
years, however. Especially since, in this day and age, hardly anyone is
actually "from" any place, any more. :)
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:57 PM Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman <dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
After living for 35 years in Colorado, the most common complaint we had about
Californians in Colorado was McMansions and the "sea of roofs" in Highlands
Ranch and Parker. It seemed so miserable to live in a place with a 5000 sq ft.
house on a 3000 sq ft. lot or try to navigate the series of bizarre, screwy
roads and cul de sacs! It definitely kept me North of 88th Ave, that's for
sure... :)
My parents live in Medford, OR, just north of the California border. The
change to the orchards and agriculture that made Harry and David's famous to
one of vineyards by the 100's is a stark contrast vs. what they moved to over 3
decades ago. The biggest challenge they face is folks coming up and purchasing
large ticket items as Oregon doesn't have sales tax. Although Oregon and
Washington have a friendlier connection, there are those that complain that
folks buy land in Washington to avoid the higher property tax, but shop in
Oregon for the same reason. :)
Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman
DBAKevlar Blog <http://dbakevlar.com>
about.me/dbakevlar
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 11:34 AM Melanie Caffrey <melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Welll, it really does depend on what one means by "ruining their way of life."
To be fair, most Californians are simply living their lives and have nothing to
do with what other wealthy, powerful Californians are doing in other states.
Many Coloradans take issue with hate legislation being attempted in their state
by powerful Californians who come in and have the means to do so. The few
making it difficult and giving the many a bad name, and all that.
I'm on the side of many Coloradans. I, personally, like hanging out with many
different types of people and don't want to see them threatened in any way.
Threatening people I care about can be categorized as "ruining my way of life."
And if Oregonians happen to take similar issue with such legislation. Why,
then, I'm on their side, as well. (I'm not really sure what problems Oregon
has with California.)
On the other hand, I don't have a problem with raising taxes and creating
infrastructure.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 7:32 AM Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman <dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
In our travels for over two years in the RV, I noticed no matter what state you
were in, there was always an influx of people from another state or area that
long-time residents are sure are ruining their way of life.
The thing that got me about California is what you see on media covers so
little of the land that it encompasses. There are great little towns that are
significant for their agricultural contributions and such a wide variety of
eco-systems. I really do love our time there and the difference in the
lifestyle between living in Eureka vs. Palm Desert vs. Sacramento or San Diego.
I’m also perfectly happy skipping LA altogether, whenever possible. :)
Tim and I will still be taking the RV down south for the winter when we’re
tired of the rain in January-April, so I’m glad for California just south of
us, even if the Californians keep moving up here and changing Oregon. :)
Kellyn
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM Melanie Caffrey <melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
And oddly enough I am a California native, though I've spent most of my life,
cumulatively, living elsewhere. :)
Though if I do ever find myself living in CA again, I'll be doing so sans
bumper sticker. :)
Seriously, though, Austin is very cool. Congrats to you and yours!
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 10:03 PM James Morle <james@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I consider myself a little over 10% Californian :)
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 12:13 PM Melanie Caffrey <melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I guess every state has its share of inconvenient persons.
