And as you stated, Melanie- Colorado is a blue state, but has significant
variation in political areas. Colorado Springs is considered more
conservative, where Boulder is more progressive and Greeley, along with
most of the Northeast of the state even considered seceding from the rest
of the state in protest to the more progressive agenda they weren’t
interested in. It’s interesting considering the amendment 2 history and
seeing where the state is now, but from what many of us know, a majority of
states have this situation- more urban, more liberal or progressive, while
rural areas are more conservative or libertarian politically. We really
are states of purple, having to dig deeper to get to red and blue...:)
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 5:23 PM Melanie Caffrey <melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
That actually sums it up rather perfectly. And to be clear, the issues
were not with "just anyone moving from California." But those with intent
to impose on others without getting to know the current residents.
Powerful figures. Like James Dobson was at the time. He took advantage of
the fact that, for years, Colorado had a wide-eyed admiration of all things
Californian, which left Colorado vulnerable to his particular agenda.
The CU-Boulder student body is mainly Californian, these days.
Coloradoans and Californians regularly share time between the two states,
as of late.
He knew nothing about me. I concluded he was a moron.The response was "how can you live there, there are Republicans there."
And as Blue a state as CO is, since I currently have a residence one hour
south of Denver people say the same to me.
members and NRA members. We disagree on many things but we all get along,I live on a block with Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, PETA
help each other and hang out together with no hard feelings or animosity.
Me too. Currently in Pine, CO. Of course, COVID has brought about some
less-than-congenial discussions among neighbors, but that is another matter.
And having family in both Bakersfield and Fresno, they've both told me
they would never live in CO. :) However, my friends from San Francisco
have been out to visit, and consider properties, several times.
Apologies if it sounded like I was blanket-stereotyping Californians. In
reality, I was blanket-stereotyping politicians. And there are some
terrible ones. And, unfortunately, some of them, for Colorado, came from
California.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 5:50 PM Andrew Zitelli <azitelli@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
As a native Californian, born and raised in Palo Alto, this has been an
interesting thread. From Palo Alto I moved to Berkeley for college and
then fled the state for a few years. I returned in 1983 so I have lived
here a total of 60 years. Here is my two cents.
The population of California is not a uniform population of arrogant
jerks, it just has a disproportionately large number of them. There are
large differences in culture and attitude throughout various parts of the
state. The culture of the Bay Area is drastically different than Southern
California, the Central Valley, and the small towns in the far northern
part of the state. Although some in the Bay Area consider themselves
morally superior to those in Southern California, I actually prefer So.
Cal. Having lived in each for almost 30 years, I find people in the South
are less politically combative. I live on a block with Democrats,
Republicans, Libertarians, PETA members and NRA members. We disagree on
many things but we all get along, help each other and hang out together
with no hard feelings or animosity. This was the case in Palo Alto and
Berkeley in the 1960s, but is much less so today. I was recently
introduced to someone in Palo Alto as living in Orange County.
The response was "how can you live there, there are Republicans there." He
knew nothing about me. I concluded he was a moron.
What does all this mean? From my perspective, Californians moving to
other parts of the country are not equally dangerous. I suspect a family
moving from Bakersfield or Fresno would quickly blend into Idaho or
Colorado or New Mexico, without bringing along too many bad side effects.
On the other hand, if I lived in Texas or Oklahoma and someone moved in
next door from San Francisco or Los Gatos or Santa Monica I might be wary.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:58 PM Melanie Caffrey <
melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
31 years of living in CO for me. With my parents having lived in CO
since 1969. So, basically I have spent some amount of time in CO every
year, since 1969. :) (I am old.)
One of the most heartbreaking incidents for me was Amendment 2 being
passed (then thankfully overturned, albeit in a very publicly shameful way)
and having public figures make calls to "boycott Colorado". From 1992 to
1996, CO was labeled the "hate state". Sometimes it still is.
In the 70's and 80's, CO did not have a huge amount of big business or
big money. It was just a sleepy little state with some good ski resorts,
lots of crunchy granola peace-love-type people (like many people I know and
am related to :) ), and the occasional conservative group that didn't find
a huge legitimizing stronghold (even with the state's strong military
presence.) Lots of blue-collar industry. Tech was only just beginning to
spin up.
When James Dobson made his way into the city in which I grew up, my eyes
were completely opened to the fact that not everything California brought
to our state held the possibility of improvement. Scars like this have
healed slowly for many. And many left Colorado Springs and Colorado
because of it. :(
People joke (and I do, too) that Texans comprise quite a bit of
tourism. But, it's a long-standing joke. Colorado, as a whole, loves its
tourism dollar. Confrontations like the one Mark had are few and far
between. I've thankfully never seen or heard of that happening to anyone
before.
The biggest complaint I ever heard from Coloradans about Californians
was "lack of manners". They said so about Texans as well, but Texans simply
brought a larger-than-life enthusiasm, in my experience. I found them warm
and sincere. I did not find that to always be the case about Californians
when I was growing up in CO.
The relationship between CA and CO has definitely been getting better in
recent years, however. Especially since, in this day and age, hardly
anyone is actually "from" any place, any more. :)
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 3:57 PM Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman <
dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
After living for 35 years in Colorado, the most common complaint we had
about Californians in Colorado was McMansions and the "sea of roofs" in
Highlands Ranch and Parker. It seemed so miserable to live in a place with
a 5000 sq ft. house on a 3000 sq ft. lot or try to navigate the series of
bizarre, screwy roads and cul de sacs! It definitely kept me North of 88th
Ave, that's for sure... :)
My parents live in Medford, OR, just north of the California border.
The change to the orchards and agriculture that made Harry and David's
famous to one of vineyards by the 100's is a stark contrast vs. what they
moved to over 3 decades ago. The biggest challenge they face is folks
coming up and purchasing large ticket items as Oregon doesn't have sales
tax. Although Oregon and Washington have a friendlier connection, there
are those that complain that folks buy land in Washington to avoid the
higher property tax, but shop in Oregon for the same reason. :)
*Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman*
DBAKevlar Blog <http://dbakevlar.com>
about.me/dbakevlar
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 11:34 AM Melanie Caffrey <
melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Welll, it really does depend on what one means by "ruining their way
of life."
To be fair, most Californians are simply living their lives and have
nothing to do with what other wealthy, powerful Californians are doing in
other states.
Many Coloradans take issue with hate legislation being attempted in
their state by powerful Californians who come in and have the means to do
so. The few making it difficult and giving the many a bad name, and all
that.
I'm on the side of many Coloradans. I, personally, like hanging out
with many different types of people and don't want to see them threatened
in any way. Threatening people I care about can be categorized as
"ruining
my way of life."
And if Oregonians happen to take similar issue with such legislation.
Why, then, I'm on their side, as well. (I'm not really sure what problems
Oregon has with California.)
On the other hand, I don't have a problem with raising taxes and
creating infrastructure.
On Wed, Dec 16, 2020 at 7:32 AM Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman <
dbakevlar@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In our travels for over two years in the RV, I noticed no matter what--
state you were in, there was always an influx of people from another
state
or area that long-time residents are sure are ruining their way of life.
The thing that got me about California is what you see on media
covers so little of the land that it encompasses. There are great little
towns that are significant for their agricultural contributions and such
a
wide variety of eco-systems. I really do love our time there and the
difference in the lifestyle between living in Eureka vs. Palm Desert vs.
Sacramento or San Diego. I’m also perfectly happy skipping LA
altogether,
whenever possible. :)
Tim and I will still be taking the RV down south for the winter when
we’re tired of the rain in January-April, so I’m glad for California just
south of us, even if the Californians keep moving up here and changing
Oregon. :)
Kellyn
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 3:57 PM Melanie Caffrey <
melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
And oddly enough I am a California native, though I've spent most of
my life, cumulatively, living elsewhere. :)
Though if I do ever find myself living in CA again, I'll be doing so
sans bumper sticker. :)
Seriously, though, Austin is very cool. Congrats to you and yours!
On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 10:03 PM James Morle <james@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I consider myself a little over 10% Californian :)
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 12:13 PM Melanie Caffrey <
melanie.caffrey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I guess every state has its share of inconvenient persons.
Oh, most definitely. And though I don't condone what those
passengers did, I know it comes from a long storied history of feeling
disrespected in their own state.
I also generally don't like bumper stickers as they are mostly a
form of passive aggression.
Fun fact. The guy who made and distributed (or who is purported
to have done so) that "Native" bumper sticker that many Coloradans are
proud to sport on their vehicles, was born and raised in Utah.
On Sun, Dec 13, 2020 at 5:51 AM Mark W. Farnham <mwf@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
OK. True story. My first time visiting Colorado was for “Keystone
I” the first OAUG meeting managed by Meeting Expectations. (1991,
late
winter, only the A basin was still open, thankfully not far uphill
from
Keystone.)
A car with flashing highbeams pulls even in the passing lane and
we’re getting the bird from all the passengers and they are
screaming “Go
back to Texas!” We’re confused. I roll down the window. We’re from
New
Hampshire. Why did you think we were from Texas? And why don’t you
like
Texans?
So they stop gesticulating and one says your license plate says
Texas. Oh – it’s a rental. He goes on Texans clog up our ski areas
and buy
drinks for all the prettiest girls. Then they went faster.
Bumper sticker: “Don’t Californicate Colorado.” I met a lot of
nice people in Colorado. I guess every state has its share of
inconvenient
persons.
mwf
*From:* oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *John Beresniewicz
*Sent:* Saturday, December 12, 2020 12:07 PM
*To:* oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Cc:* douglas rady
*Subject:* [oaktable] Re: James started a trend ...
Back in the early 80’s I was in Seattle at the UW and already the
phrase “Don’t Californicate Washington” was circulating.
JB
On Sat, Dec 12, 2020 at 8:37 AM Tim Gorman <tim.evdbt@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Years ago, there was a saying in Colorado that "happiness was a
Texan heading south with a Californian under each arm".
Who would have thought that California would become the new New
Jersey?
-Joisey boy
On 12/11/2020 6:42 PM, douglas rady wrote:
Yes, Oregon and Washington have suffered for years from fleeing
Californians who then (intentionally or not) attempt to replicate
the same
circumstances that drove them out of CA to begin with.
On Friday, December 11, 2020, Mark W. Farnham <mwf@xxxxxxxx>
wrote:
And his property value just jumped significantly.
Congratulations, James.
Now the real challenge will be the very real threat of tax
refugees from California paradoxically wanting an income tax.
I have failed in many of my efforts to keep New Hampshire New
Hampshire, but so far our tax refugees from Massachusetts and New
Jersey
have not been able to get past our constitution on that one. (We
don’t have
many New York tax refugees; they tend to move to Burlington, VT.
Probably
they are thinking: “That worked out nicely for Bernie.”)
Anyway Texas, en garde and good luck!
mwf
*From:* oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
oaktable-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] *On Behalf Of *douglas rady
*Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2020 4:47 PM
*To:* oaktable@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [oaktable] James started a trend ...
ORCL moving HQ to AUS
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/11/oracle-is-moving-its-headquarters-from-silicon-valley-to-austin-texas.html
--
*Kellyn Pot'Vin-Gorman*
DBAKevlar Blog <http://dbakevlar.com>
about.me/dbakevlar
