i've enjoyed reading all the e-mails that have come regarding self reliance, permaculture, etc. i have a small farm (10 acres) have reached a point in my life that to do what has to be done to survive what is fast approaching, can not be done by one person. not mentioned so far has been aquaculture or power. i have a family living on the property raising milk goats, however at the present time there is not enough milk for others. sharing is the idea, not selling. thats against the law. i would like to put fish in my ponds, however legally the only species allowed require cold, well oxigenated water. there are other types that can be raised even if the water is brackish. any ideas out there. i have garden areas that need to be used and maintained. what do i want? a share for my larder & help in maintaining this place. i want to expand what i have. more fruit, nut trees, grapes, medicinal plants,etc. the list can go on & on. i have a few chickens but will have to obtain some more bantams as they forage well in the absence of a feed store. one important commodity i have lots of is water. i am off grid, have a turbine, generator, & will be putting in solar, wind this spring. i also want to build an earthship as soon as i can, as i believe this is our future. comments, please. dale gibson ----- Original Message ----- From: Robin Wheeler To: microfarmer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 5:34 PM Subject: [microfarmer] Re: Ideas Hi, all - Good discussion - I would like to return briefly to the original message to this group - that I will be offering another Microfarm Forum in February, am inviting people to speak on Non Forest Timber Products and "Value Added", and am wondering if there is another class that some consensus could develop around for a third topic. The theme will be "Capacity Building", remembering that this is what the funds are directed towards - helping growers increase capacity to grow food, to feed themselves, and then to sell to others, in an effort to make the Sunshine coast safer to live in, reduce fossil fuel use, bring people back to their gardens. Thanks! Meanwhile, please carry on with dialogue ... Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: Lancifer WIldwood To: microfarmer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Sent: Friday, November 30, 2007 3:53 PM Subject: [microfarmer] Ideas The European Central Bank has injected 60B of liquidity into the market, ie. they are trying to bail out a sinking ship with a thimble! They actually did more inane things today. The FRN (I refuse to call greenbacks 'money'!) is doing the same and there is no way around what is going on financially. Its a dead end. Peter Light and his son were looking into writing a minimal diet for the coast, what could be grown that would meet our basic nutritional needs if we could also eat from the sea. Too bad, I don't think they've been working on it. Everyone needs to know stuff like that but, alas!, most people haven't a clue about what's really going on. Sure there are whispers of doom, 'Peak Oil' (nonsense, peak refinery production), 'Anthropogenic' global warming (vide: more taxes for everyone!) but 'follow the money' and then it becomes clear that the crisis that those in power don't want us to look at is financial. This is one reason I suggest everyone invest in seeds, which will be the currency of tomorrow (briefly), and a really good 'fedge' (an edible hedge) from which to take cuttings. I'd say a bush in the ground with tasty fruit or nuts on it is a good hedge against economic skullduggery. Since we are such a small group of people it seems logical to focus on selling plants with which people can feed themselves, if it comes to a crisis there is no way any of us would be able to feed 'the masses'. Ah...more lynn grossutti <secheltlynn@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: Greetings to you, Your experience and observations are appreciated. Thanks for taking the conversation up a notch. In my opinion, now, real food security is a well thought out, community plan based on market research, nutritional data and the execution of that plan. It's not a romance. I'd like to know how many of us have even 10 lbs of dried beans and 50 lbs of rice kikking around with some miso and tahini, dried fruits and veggies, dried milk powder and nuts to feed us for a couple of months. For vegans, this would be paramount and for the flexitarians (everyone else) it would provide base line nutrition. How many of us have tried the 100 mile diet? How long would our food supply last without the ferries and the products they carry over for us? Apparently about 3 days and then 'survivor' would kikk in. The First Nations fished, hunted and grew corn, beans and squash (the 3 sisters) and they thrived. The Sechelt Nation was affluent. It seems to me that they didn't fabricate reality; they honoured it and respected it. Could you say more about "the EU CB injected another 60B into the markets today!" and what you would priorize in the next year for those of us seeking solutions geared to food security? The thing is, we are a group of people who make up a small percentage of the population that would even consider asking these questions and searching for solutions. We are living and bringing up our children in a vibrant, enthusiastic and positive community. Everything we need is right here and now. Looking forward to future forums. Ciao for now, Lynn Grossutti ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:47:30 -0500 From: phytomphalosfarm@xxxxxxxx Subject: [microfarmer] Re: Ideas, please To: microfarmer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Greetings: After some thought (8 years worth now, here) I've concluded for myself that this is not an area to farm in. Permaculture yes, farm no. By this I mean that I will never spend time growing annuals for market. I've enough experience to know that for real food security, you must provide for you and yours above all else. Expecting even this amount of return from the poor soils on the coast is almost laughable. Looking at my extended families food needs for one year makes me lean far more towards mariculture than agriculture. This is simply not a 'farming' locale. Sure there was enough small fruit production to have a jam factory, and I'm sure that those who contributed also had home gardens, but the wealth that westerners extracted from here was not soil based, it was ocean/forestry based. Looking at boosting production of low-use annuals (almost most of them!) seems rather weird to me. If anything, we should be focusing on small scale meat raising, because vegetarianism/veganism as a lifestyle would be impossible in a time of real crisis. Which is what I tend to think is coming. Growing more lettuce, peppers, corn, basil or other marginal crops seems a waste of time. Sure they may be slightly marketable but they do not answer to food self security what-so-ever. The only solution I have come up with is to utilize the dead spaces as foraging tools. Roadsides, empty lots, marginal land, clearcuts. These places could all be utilized as massive food production areas, if our main food source was the sea. As it was for the past millennia. We should learn from the Sechelt, not try and garden in and around them. Sure, have a huge home garden, but what need is there for specialty lettuce's? Focus on 20, very hardy (do to Solar Based Climate Change), very useful plants. As a money earner, we could, since there not very many of us really... become nurserypeople. Having a fully functional fedge filled with fabulous fruits and nuts is going to be de rigeur in the not so distant future (the EU CB injected another 60 B into the markets today!). The plain and simple fact is, we can not live by soil alone, nor anywhere near so, on the Sunshine Coast (my apologies to the non-coasters here). We must focus in on how we CAN live, not on the whims of marketability, but in clear concise garden-wise ways that may need more marketing than the easier to see products. We need to be proactive in helping mariculture renew itself. We need to think along different lines. Sure, grow blueberries, but grow 20 types of them! Harder to market since they don't ripen at the same time, but holding down different genepools in the face uncertain climate/political/banking backdrops seems wise. Have a specialty! But don't specialize (specialization is for insects). If this list is the new wave of budding farmers, we need to do a lot of thinking and planning for what is to come. I disdain of typing really, so I'm hoping to chat more with everyone at the next gathering. Growing perennials is more time consuming, but more fruitful in the future. And if my sources are correct, we are going to need a lot of food security in the not so distant future. Ciao Fer Now lance A consensus means that everyone agrees to say collectively what no one believes individually. Abba Eban ""We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an Act of God to ever get them out to benefit humanity...Anything you can imagine, we already know how to do." 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