Kara, the definition of the word Peeps. The short weak cry of a young bird. Was that supposed to be a compliment? Too bad I can't fly. Perhaps I'm just too young. Neal -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:20 PM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. Ah, thanks Neal, glad this finally made sense for peeps! Smiles, Cara :) On Apr 23, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Neal Ewers wrote: > Kara, you said, > ". The cursor falls between characters . forward delete removes the > character to its right . reverse delete removes the character to its > left . While moving right with the arrows, VO will first speak the > character to the right of the cursor, and then the cursor will move > right . While moving left with left arrows, the cursor will move left, > and then VO will speak the character to its right." > > Well done. It is worth repeating again. > > Neal > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn > Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:58 PM > To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. > > uh, lol! confused here! <smile> that's right. And that's what I > tried to say. I never said you were on a character at all. I've only > said you are between characters. > > the rule of thumb is simple. > > . The cursor falls between characters > . forward delete removes the character to its right . reverse delete > removes the character to its left . While moving right with the > arrows, VO will first speak the character to the right of the cursor, > and then the cursor will move right . While moving left with left > arrows, the cursor will move left, and then VO will speak the > character to its right > > Hope this makes sense. > > Smiles, > > CQ :) > > > On Apr 23, 2008, at 6:22 AM, David Poehlman wrote: > >> but, if the character to the right of the cursor is in focus, why >> then if I start typing, do I push it and why then if I press >> backspace/delete, that is left delete or backwards delete, does the >> character to the left get deleted? >> It seems to me that this is a result of being between characters and >> not on one. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Cara Quinn" <Cara-Quinn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:33 PM >> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the >> keyboard. >> >> >> Okay, I just reread this and really feel I ought to try yet again >> for a bit more clarity! lol! >> >> Yes, the character to the right of the cursor is the one which VO >> reads. However, when you press right arrow, the character to the >> cursor's right is first read, and then the cursor moves ahead or to >> the right, one position. so yes, in effect, the character that >> you've just heard is now positioned to the left of the cursor, and >> the cursor is highlighting the character ahead of it, to it's right. >> >> So now, if you move left, with your left arrow key, the cursor will >> do the opposite of what just happened, and will first move left one >> position, and then the character to it's right, will be announced. >> So >> in both cases, the character to the right of the cursor is the one >> which is in focus. >> >> As I've said before, for sighted users of Windows, this is exactly >> the same behavior but is reinterpreted for the VI user by the Windows >> screen reader. >> >> anyway, sorry for the ramblie confusion! lol! Just back from a long >> / great workout and tres relaxed! woohoo! >> >> Have a great night and hope this finally makes some sense! lol! >> >> Laters, >> >> Cara Cat :) >> >> >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: >> >>> David, you've actually got this reversed. <smile> The cursor is >>> announcing the character just in front of it; not the one you've >>> just left. I.E. in the word 'is' if you use your right arrow and >>> read the letter 'i' the cursor is now positioned right between the >>> 'i' >>> and the 's' and is now focused on the letter 's.' >>> >>> So if you were to do a delete, you'd delete the letter 's.' Does >>> this make sense? >>> >>> If you then press your left arrow once, and hear the letter 'i' >>> announced, your cursor is now just before the letter 'i,' having >>> moved back one character. So now, the letter 'i' is the letter that >>> your cursor is focused on. >>> >>> lol! believe it or not, my roomie, who is a windows user just >>> confirmed this for me in MS Word, so it's quite similar. >>> >>> My apologies if my previous explanation was flawed. <smile> >>> >>> YOu can think of it this way. The character to the right of the >>> cursor, is always the one that VO will read. >>> >>> HOpe this makes sense and again, have a great night!. >>> >>> Smiles, >>> >>> cara :) >>> >>> >>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 3:41 PM, David Truong wrote: >>> >>>> That might be so but it isn't helpful though. How does one know >>>> what character he/she is on? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm >>>> just trying to get a fix cause as I say, in reality when I move my >>>> left or right arrow keys, the character I have just left is being >>>> repeated. >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David >>>> Poehlman >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 8:35 AM >>>> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the >>>> keyboard. >>>> >>>> this is fixed behaviour since the cursor is never on a character >>>> but between >>>> >>>> characters when it is at rest, changing direction will repeat the >>>> character on the way back. Note, it is helpful in that it is a >>>> more precise way of measuring your position with respect to a >>>> character. >>>> This is not voice over >>>> >>>> behavior but voiceover reflecting the behavior of the user >>>> interface. >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "David Truong" <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:23 PM >>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. >>>> >>>> >>>> HI, >>>> >>>> Talking about edit fields, how do you set voiceover up so it >>>> doesn't repeat the same character you have just left? For example, >>>> I will be moving across a document in a text editor under leopard >>>> with my right and left arrow keys, voiceover will read d a v I d as >>>> I am moving the right arrow key. >>>> That's >>>> fine but when I move the left arrow back, it will read d even >>>> though really I am on the I and when I move the right arrow to land >>>> on d, it will read i. >>>> It does this through a line of text so after a while you kind've >>>> loose where you are. This was especially annoying when I had to >>>> enter serial numbers for my audio hijack pro and recently VmWare >>>> Fusion. Please don't tell me that I have to gain more experience >>>> with the Mac and it is something I will learn to get use to smile. >>>> There must be a fix. >>>> >>>> Thanks in advance for any help on the above, >>>> >>>> David Truong >>>> >>>> EMail and Messenger: >>>> davidtruong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> Skype: blindboxer1967 >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacob >>>> Schmude >>>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 7:12 AM >>>> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. >>>> >>>> Hi >>>> Actually, arrows move you around in a wordprocessor just fine, >>>> along with lists, and just about anywhere else you could use them >>>> in windows. What might be happening to you is that the arrow keys >>>> you're pressing simply aren't moving you anywhere, either because >>>> you're not in a place you can use them or because there's no items >>>> for them to move you to. An example of this would be on the >>>> desktop, if you don't have any other drives plugged in or CDs in >>>> the drive, there's only one icon there for the hard drive. Pressing >>>> arrow keys there with only one icon present will give you no >>>> output, since you haven't moved anywhere. >>>> Most of what you're used to will work (tab, arrows, etc) though >>>> they don't always work the way you'd expect from a Windows >>>> perspective. >>>> hth >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Sara wrote: >>>> >>>>> I don't think I've ever used the keyboard learn mode with Jaws or >>>>> Window-Eyes. >>>>> I think the only reason I'd use it with a mac is because I can't >>>>> seem to just press the arrow keys to navigate around. Somebody >>>>> please correct me if I am understanding this wrong, but from >>>>> what I >>>>> have read so far, arrow keys get a blind person nowhere. How do >>>>> people edit text in a word processor? Do you need to use control >>>>> option with all arrow keys all the time? I know you can lock them >>>>> and that would help but just want to clarify. What about with the >>>>> numpad? Can those keys be used instead of control option arrows to >>>>> move around and have text read? I think I am missing something. >>>>> It's >>>>> probably a lot easier than it sounds. smile Sara >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Truong" >>>>> <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:50 PM >>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Hi Sara, >>>>>> >>>>>> Trust me, it was the first command I drummed into my head. You >>>>>> got to love keyboard learn mode on any screen reader. It is a >>>>>> godsend. >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>> [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sara >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 4:31 AM >>>>>> To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks people! Sounds like a command I'll be using a lot >>>>>> tomorrow. >>>>>> lol >>>>>> Sara >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman" >>>> <david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>> >>>>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:23 PM >>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> vo keys-k turns on keyboard help and what's really cool about it >>>>>>> is that it even tells you what all the keys do, not just vo >>>>>>> keys. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Reedy" >>>>>>> <WA9DRO@xxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:20 PM >>>>>>> Subject: [macvoiceover] Learning the keyboard. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Learning the Keyboard can be done with out interfearing with >>>>>>> your >>>>>>> work. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Pressing VO keys-k will cause Voiceover to speak the name of >>>>>>> each >>>>>>> key and if you press a combination of keys, Voiceover will tell >>>>>>> you what that combination of keys will do. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Press escape to stop this function. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Keith Reedy >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the >>>>>>>> Web >>>>>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the >>>>>>>> Web >>>>>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>> below. >>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>>> below. >>>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>>> >>>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>>> below. >>>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>> >>>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>> >>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>> below. >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>> >>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>> below. >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>> >>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>> below. >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>>> >>>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>>> below. >>>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>>> >>> >>> --- >>> View my Online Portfolio at: >>> http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn >>> >>>> >>>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>>> >>>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>>> below. >>>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>> >>>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>>> >> >> --- >> View my Online Portfolio at: >> http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn >> >>> >>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>> >>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>> below. >>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>> >>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>> >> >> >>> >>> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >>> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >>> >>> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >>> below. >>> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>> >>> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >>> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >>> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >>> > > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >> below. >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> > >> >> Click on the link below to go to our homepage. >> http://www.icanworkthisthing.com >> >> Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link >> below. >> //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> >> Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to >> macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >> with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web >> interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >> --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Click on the link below to go to our homepage. > http://www.icanworkthisthing.com > > Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. > //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover > > Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to > macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web > interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover > > > Click on the link below to go to our homepage. > http://www.icanworkthisthing.com > > Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. > //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover > > Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to > macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx > with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web > interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover >