Denigrated? dem's pretty strong words! eh?! <smile> lol!I think people probably came away with a relatively meaningful and complete understanding of my phraseology as well as post modern colloquialisms. Thanks, though, and as always; Have a totally awesome evening! -And, to the new-comers, certainly no denigration directed at ya from this corner of the universe!
Smiles, Cara :) On Apr 24, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Neal Ewers wrote:
Ah yes, Thanks for that. I don't have to fly after all. Sorry, I just didn't want people who were new comers to this list to feel denigrated. So,thanks for the second definition. Neal -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 11:23 AM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.neil, What your dictionary doesn't tell you but that you probably alreadyknow is that peeps is also short for a word that rimes with steeple. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neal Ewers" <neal.ewers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2008 10:50 AM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.Kara, the definition of the word Peeps. The short weak cry of a young bird. Was that supposed to be a compliment? Too bad I can't fly. Perhaps I'mjust too young. Neal -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 6:20 PM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. Ah, thanks Neal, glad this finally made sense for peeps! Smiles, Cara :) On Apr 23, 2008, at 3:33 PM, Neal Ewers wrote:Kara, you said, ". The cursor falls between characters . forward delete removes the character to its right . reverse delete removes the character to its left . While moving right with the arrows, VO will first speak the character to the right of the cursor, and then the cursor will moveright . While moving left with left arrows, the cursor will move left,and then VO will speak the character to its right." Well done. It is worth repeating again. Neal -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Cara Quinn Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 3:58 PM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxxSubject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard.uh, lol! confused here! <smile> that's right. And that's what Itried to say. I never said you were on a character at all. I've onlysaid you are between characters. the rule of thumb is simple. . The cursor falls between characters . forward delete removes the character to its right . reverse delete removes the character to its left . While moving right with the arrows, VO will first speak the character to the right of the cursor, and then the cursor will move right . While moving left with left arrows, the cursor will move left, and then VO will speak the character to its right Hope this makes sense. Smiles, CQ :) On Apr 23, 2008, at 6:22 AM, David Poehlman wrote:but, if the character to the right of the cursor is in focus, why then if I start typing, do I push it and why then if I press backspace/delete, that is left delete or backwards delete, does the character to the left get deleted? It seems to me that this is a result of being between characters and not on one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cara Quinn" <Cara-Quinn@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 11:33 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. Okay, I just reread this and really feel I ought to try yet again for a bit more clarity! lol! Yes, the character to the right of the cursor is the one which VO reads. However, when you press right arrow, the character to the cursor's right is first read, and then the cursor moves ahead or to the right, one position. so yes, in effect, the character that you've just heard is now positioned to the left of the cursor, and the cursor is highlighting the character ahead of it, to it's right. So now, if you move left, with your left arrow key, the cursor will do the opposite of what just happened, and will first move left one position, and then the character to it's right, will be announced. So in both cases, the character to the right of the cursor is the one which is in focus. As I've said before, for sighted users of Windows, this is exactlythe same behavior but is reinterpreted for the VI user by the Windowsscreen reader.anyway, sorry for the ramblie confusion! lol! Just back from a long/ great workout and tres relaxed! woohoo! Have a great night and hope this finally makes some sense! lol! Laters, Cara Cat :) On Apr 22, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Cara Quinn wrote:David, you've actually got this reversed. <smile> The cursor is announcing the character just in front of it; not the one you've just left. I.E. in the word 'is' if you use your right arrow and read the letter 'i' the cursor is now positioned right between the 'i' and the 's' and is now focused on the letter 's.' So if you were to do a delete, you'd delete the letter 's.' Does this make sense? If you then press your left arrow once, and hear the letter 'i' announced, your cursor is now just before the letter 'i,' havingmoved back one character. So now, the letter 'i' is the letter thatyour cursor is focused on. lol! believe it or not, my roomie, who is a windows user just confirmed this for me in MS Word, so it's quite similar. My apologies if my previous explanation was flawed. <smile> YOu can think of it this way. The character to the right of the cursor, is always the one that VO will read. HOpe this makes sense and again, have a great night!. Smiles, cara :) On Apr 22, 2008, at 3:41 PM, David Truong wrote:That might be so but it isn't helpful though. How does one know what character he/she is on? I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to get a fix cause as I say, in reality when I move my left or right arrow keys, the character I have just left is being repeated. -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of David Poehlman Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 8:35 AM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. this is fixed behaviour since the cursor is never on a character but between characters when it is at rest, changing direction will repeat the character on the way back. Note, it is helpful in that it is a more precise way of measuring your position with respect to a character. This is not voice over behavior but voiceover reflecting the behavior of the user interface. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Truong" <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 6:23 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Edit fields was Re: Learning the keyboard. HI, Talking about edit fields, how do you set voiceover up so itdoesn't repeat the same character you have just left? For example,I will be moving across a document in a text editor under leopardwith my right and left arrow keys, voiceover will read d a v I d asI am moving the right arrow key. That's fine but when I move the left arrow back, it will read d eventhough really I am on the I and when I move the right arrow to landon d, it will read i. It does this through a line of text so after a while you kind've loose where you are. This was especially annoying when I had to enter serial numbers for my audio hijack pro and recently VmWare Fusion. Please don't tell me that I have to gain more experience with the Mac and it is something I will learn to get use to smile. There must be a fix. Thanks in advance for any help on the above, David Truong EMail and Messenger: davidtruong@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Skype: blindboxer1967 -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jacob Schmude Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 7:12 AM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. Hi Actually, arrows move you around in a wordprocessor just fine, along with lists, and just about anywhere else you could use them in windows. What might be happening to you is that the arrow keys you're pressing simply aren't moving you anywhere, either because you're not in a place you can use them or because there's no items for them to move you to. An example of this would be on the desktop, if you don't have any other drives plugged in or CDs inthe drive, there's only one icon there for the hard drive. Pressingarrow keys there with only one icon present will give you no output, since you haven't moved anywhere. Most of what you're used to will work (tab, arrows, etc) though they don't always work the way you'd expect from a Windows perspective. hth On Apr 22, 2008, at 1:57 PM, Sara wrote:I don't think I've ever used the keyboard learn mode with Jaws or Window-Eyes. I think the only reason I'd use it with a mac is because I can't seem to just press the arrow keys to navigate around. Somebody please correct me if I am understanding this wrong, but from what I have read so far, arrow keys get a blind person nowhere. How do people edit text in a word processor? Do you need to use control option with all arrow keys all the time? I know you can lock them and that would help but just want to clarify. What about with thenumpad? Can those keys be used instead of control option arrows tomove around and have text read? I think I am missing something. It's probably a lot easier than it sounds. smile Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Truong" <bnfiles@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTo: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 3:50 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.Hi Sara, Trust me, it was the first command I drummed into my head. You got to love keyboard learn mode on any screen reader. It is a godsend. -----Original Message----- From: macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:macvoiceover-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sara Sent: Wednesday, 23 April 2008 4:31 AM To: macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard. Thanks people! Sounds like a command I'll be using a lot tomorrow. lol Sara ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Poehlman"<david.poehlman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxTo: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 1:23 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Re: Learning the keyboard.vo keys-k turns on keyboard help and what's really cool about itis that it even tells you what all the keys do, not just vo keys. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Reedy" <WA9DRO@xxxxxxxxx> To: <macvoiceover@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2008 2:20 PM Subject: [macvoiceover] Learning the keyboard. Learning the Keyboard can be done with out interfearing with your work. Pressing VO keys-k will cause Voiceover to speak the name of each key and if you press a combination of keys, Voiceover will tell you what that combination of keys will do. Press escape to stop this function. Keith ReedyClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.comManage your subscription by using the web interface on the linkbelow. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.comManage your subscription by using the web interface on the linkbelow. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Webinterface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Webinterface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email tomacvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxwith 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our 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macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceoverClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover--- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinnClick on the link below to go to our homepage. http://www.icanworkthisthing.com Manage your subscription by using the web interface on the link below. //www.freelists.org/list/macvoiceover Users can subscribe to this list by sending email to macvoiceover-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by logging into the Web interface at 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