[lit-ideas] Re: some Hitchens to raise ire
- From: "Andy Amago" <aamago@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx, lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:44:16 -0400
> [Original Message]
> From: Eric Yost <mr.eric.yost@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 9/27/2005 1:01:17 AM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: some Hitchens to raise ire
>
>
> Andy: Why doesn't he address, among other things, that Bush never
> finished in Afghanistan. Bush dropped Afghanistan like a hot potato
> and turned all attention to Iraq and paved the way for a new
> recruiting ground for al Qaeda, got us into an unwinable war with an
> inexhaustible enemy. Why no mention of this?
>
> Eric: Because it's not entirely true. Bush never finished in
> Afghanistan because Afghanistan is not finished. The President after
> Bush will probably not finish in Afghanistan either.
>
Bush never finished in Afghanistan because he turned to Iraq. Afghanistan
is therefore unfinished. He dropped his search for OBL and turned to WMD.
The time to have finished it is when we had the momentum, the intiative.
Not after we give them time to regroup and scatter. The next president
will have a much harder time because al Qaeda grew much stronger in the
meantime. Bush laid the foundation for a decades long struggle.
> We agree that Iraq was a very bad decision, but not that the war is
> unwinable and the enemy inexhaustible. If we have a mind to do so,
> we can exhaust the insurgency a long time before they exhaust us.
Lyndon Johnson thought the same thing.
> The BBC had a story several weeks ago about Zarquawi planning to
> escape to the horn of Africa because he senses the tide turning
> against him. Perhaps he's getting exhausted?
>
Rumsfeld's been saying this over and over and the insurgency gets worse and
worse.
> Hitchens' point is similar to the point made by the article M.A.
> Camp posted -- the anti-war movement is in the hands of people who
> wish defeat, not merely those who advocate peace.
>
Who said Iraq isn't like Vietnam?
> Certainly "bringing the troops home now," as Cindy Sheehan wants,
> would only lead to the massacre of tens or hundreds of thousands of
> Iraqis. But they don't count, I guess? It would have other terrible
> effects too.
>
Same argument as Vietnam. The difference is the people are getting
slaughtered there now and have been since this war began and nobody cares.
> Andy: After Pearl Harbor, with the proper leadership the American
> people did what they they had to do. They rebuilt their navy by
> building a battle ship every three weeks, a plane every day (dates
> approximate but very close).
>
> Eric: Yes and there were no new model cars during the entire war,
> because of the need to devote manufacturing to wartime production.
> Think the corporations will go for that?
It's a war, or Bush says it is. The mood in the country after 9/11 would
have supported it. You accused me of calling Americans lazy, and now
you're saying that they'll put cars over security.
Plus in 1941, 75% of the US
> population was opposed to entering the war. They must have
> considered a war against the Nazis unwinable because the
> goosesteppers were inexhaustible.
>
Pearl Harbor changed that. It awakened the sleeping lion. So did OBL
until Bush got sidetracked.
> Andy: FDR fought to win. Bush started a war and remembered his golf
> game. Hitchens is a party hack idiot.
>
> Eric: Hitchens used to be a regular contributor to The Nation, wrote
> a book arguing that Kissinger be tried for war crimes. After 9-11,
> he changed his mind. I like that. It shows courage and flexibility.
Courage and flexibility, or flip flopping, depending on how one looks at
it. He'd better be prepared to be in Iraq for 10 years.
> Hitchens is an anti-hack: neither liberals or conservatives can
> count on his support. He opposes Bush on Intelligent Design in
> schools and on most of his domestic program. This is a party hack? Not.
>
The stuff I've heard out of his mouth is party line. He's loud too. BTW,
I hear (Newsweek) that OBL is eyeing oil production in Saudi Arabia.
Blowing up that supply line would bring us to our knees. Iraq would become
irrelevant.
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