In a message dated 9/12/2014 4:29:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes in "Re: consider": "it is not a mere "intellectual construct" but a fact of reality that there are both phenomena and noumena. In other words, noumena exist 'noumenalogically' and not at all as an "intellectual construct" of any sort (the idea that Kant's noumena are an "intellectual construct" would be to collapse Kant's "transcendental idealism"" So, I submit that Kant wasn't thinking too logically when he chose the terms 'Phainomenon' and 'Noumenon' for his distinction. Admittedly, he also talks of the 'thing' which he feels the necessity to qualify 'in itself' (Ding an sich), and which I'm sure is listed in many a philosophical lexicon. It seems more clear to speak of 'things in themselves' than 'noumena', given that 'nous' is invariably linked with 'thought' in most European languages! Cheers, Speranza ------------------------------------------------------------------ To change your Lit-Ideas settings (subscribe/unsub, vacation on/off, digest on/off), visit www.andreas.com/faq-lit-ideas.html