[lit-ideas] Re: Thing In Itself

  • From: "" <dmarc-noreply@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> (Redacted sender "Jlsperanza@xxxxxxx" for DMARC)
  • To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  • Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2014 09:38:04 -0400

In a message dated 9/13/2014 6:23:22 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
donalmcevoyuk@xxxxxxxxxxx writes in "Re: not even wrong...": "[The] passage  
repeatedly confuses noumena like "self", (external) "world" and "God" with our  
"ideas" or "products of intellect" pertaining to these noumena: Kant does not  
suggest "God" as noumena is the same as our idea of God, and indeed for Kant 
it  is a fundamental confusion to suggest this. Noumena are the "objects" or 
'things  in themselves' that lie beyond the world of our phenomenal 
experience - they are  not merely (or at all) to be confused with any ideas or 
"intellectual  constructions" or "products of intellect" we might devise that 
pertain to these  noumena. Among the fundamental questions Kant wants to 
address is what we might  legitmately claim as knowledge of these noumena given 
the limitations of our  phenomenal experience - he does not want to collapse 
these noumena (e.g. the  existence of "God") into a set of mere 
"intellectual constructions" or "ideas"  or "products of intellect" derived 
phenomenal experience."
Perhaps we may go further, and with
PDF]Chapter  II
Traduci questa  pagina
'thing-in-itself' as a “perverse” and “nonsensical” idea
claim that the 'thing-in-itself' is NONSENSICAL. 
I believe that was Ayer's claim in his Gollancz book, and it may have been  
the motivation behind Strawson's seminars at Oxford (later turned into a 
book),  "The bounds of sense", an essay on Kant's philosophy.
Some philosophers, such as H. Paul G., informally, speak of 'material  
object', but I would think we should distinguish between 'object' (which 
 to epistemology) and 'thing' which belongs to ontology. And of course, 
there may  be more to 'self', 'God', and 'world' than _matter_ "anyways", to 
use the  vernacular. 
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