[lit-ideas] Re: The Leftist Claim
- From: eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:13:58 -0400
Without getting into specifics of Iraq war and its opposition, in general the
idea that people opposing something must by association? in opposition? share
some other beliefs is so absurd Podhoretz's editor ought to be publicly flogged
for it. Even people pro something tend to have a wide range of agendas.
Hi,
Thoughtful response to Lawrence-thanks.
I do have problems with his lumping my beliefs in with all of the beliefs of
the Leftists. I most likely veer back and forth from the Realists and the
Liberal positions in most categories--but also have a strong streak of the
Isolationist in me.? And, I had reams and reams of Congressional Research
reports detailing what was going on in regards to the situation in Iraq prior
to the Iraqi War--and was on of the few in my world not jumping on the
bandwagon to fight someone/anyone (except for finishing up in Afghanistan and
then going into Pakistan where bin Laden--the real enemy--went to hide. Had
Bush been serious about going after a nation which harbored a terrorist, that
is where we would be instead of Iraq. And, don't get me going about how the
leader in Pakistan is a moderate and thus untouchable. His people are hiding a
terrorist and he is doing, basically, nothing to stop that. Were Lawrence and
the neocons really thoughfully serious about war on terror, that is where we
would be. Iraq was a smokescreen--and sure, the leader was despicable, but
the majority of the PEOPLE were and are not. Kind of the opposite of what is in
existence in Pakistan...so bin Laden continues to live as a symbol of American
... what?)? No--my feeling was not that we not fight a war--but if we wanted to
fight a war against terror, to go after the ones who terrorized the USA.?
Haven't read Greenspan's new book, but saw in a review and in a talk he gave
that he did say that we needed to do something about Iraq--because they *might*
eventually control the oil transportation venues in that area.? At least the
talk I heard him give about his book alluded to the thought that the war WAS
about oil.? (and, I am not sure that the citizenry would have been opposed to a
war about oil. Not sure we are, yet, ready to completely change our
lifestyle...and hey. We ARE the World Power and could have just
said--hey--we're the world power and we are concerned that Saddam might
interfere with that. Sorry and all, and we'll try to be as kind as we can, but
we're just not going to take a chance on Iraq huring either our multinational
corps or our citizenry's lifestyles...Being straight and honest with our people
would have worked, I think. We are pretty pragmatic, after all...and we do like
our oil under $3/gallon...even if iti s barely under...)
And, certainly Bremer and the other neocons did?give the impression that they
were trying to dsetroy a religion, so in that regard, Lawrence has a point.
With the lack of care towards the destruction of the cultural and historical
institutions (I'm on that listserv) that the USA had, it should be no wonder
that we have had the sectarian fighting.? None of them had really looked at the
history and culture of the area prior to the unification of Iraq as a
nation--had they done so, they would have looked at the tribal culture and seen
how stern the Islamic culture was before the focus was on similarities versus
differences. Take away the push towards a national pride with removal of
cultural/historic institutions that helped with that unity--and a gradual
gripping of what was there prior to that unity occurred.? (I, personally, know
several moderate Muslims. The Operation Iraqi Library soldiers know several of
them in Iraq--and many of our soldiers who have gotten to know the pe
ople in Iraq [the regular people who have not had their cultures/llifestyles
absolutely ruined...only partially...] also know alot of them. To lump ALL who
practice Islam in the same extreme section also seems rather simplistic. Go
after bin Laden and his cronies--fine. But to go after an entire relgious
world...again--not looking at how they unified and why--it is so close to being
the same religious fervor of the extremist fanatics in my area that it did make
me peek out from lurking again...<g>? Not sure that, especially then, bin
Laden's sort of Islamic fanaticism was the bulwark of the Islam that Lawrence
says is something we all need to beware.? Still--if it was, then why were we
not in Pakistan. And, we DID know he was there. (There are reports from that
timeperiod...)?
I didn't much care for the protests because they allowed people with Lawrence's
single-minded point of view to lump me into that same category. I did, however,
appreciate the fact that just as there might be multiple reasons for getting
rid of Saddam/going into Iraq for oil, multinational self-interest, etc. there
might be several reasons for NOT going into Iraq. Mine was one of them (well,
there were actually several reasons--just am mentioning a few here as I did
then...) and the protestors had their own.? And, I did appreciate their
courage--protesting like that in this country [at least here] is not really
looked at with the same positive regard. You don't even see the anti-choice
folks doing the marches like they used to do...(and they used to do them ALOT
here) It's just not, usually, that productive in terms of policy change--is the
thinking--and it's all about policy change, isn't it?? That's why the bloggers
are the 'new' protesters...and those looking at policy chan
ge can 'track' how much the rest of the population is thinking in a whole
different way...
I do still think that if we were serious about going after "The Enemy" as
Lawrence claims we should, that we should be preparing for war with Pakistan.
(not sure, at this time, that it is a war we could win, so think the USA really
needs to do some regrouping and rebuilding...and think the military stock
market world is about ready to agree--they've pillaged the public coffers
enough for a while and will see that our economy needs pause and rebuild before
they shatter it into smithereens. Just being financially prudent here--you can
only push people to the wall so far.)? Or, we need to jump into Pakistan and
root out the real problem and go back and make sure that those in Afghanistan
who are back to ruling (who helped bin Laden) really truly disappear. But, it's
not as 'easy' a war, is it?? Or as financially lucrative??
--To lump all who opposed the Iraqi War into the Leftist camp is waaay to
simplistic.? Thanks for pointing that out--
And, has anyone read Greenspan's book?
And, what do you think -- what is the purpose of cultural institutions in one's
country?? We had some bombed in 2001.? But, what would have been the feeling
were the Smithsonian bombed and all museums who hold our history in
safeguard.??What would be the feeling were those artifacts sold on the black
market or the 'saviors' taking them out and keeping them as souvenirs...?
Though perhaps what unites those of us in the USA is different than what united
the tribal world in Iraq/iran?
Best,
Marlena in Missouri
not a Leftist but nevertheless one who opposed the Iraqi War and one who can
see multiple reasons and dimensions?for so much
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