[lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
- From: "Lawrence Helm"<lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 05:29:57 +0000
Yes, unfortunately it was funny. I hate it when I make typos that are funny.
Who was it that wrote short stories about the "battle of the sexes"? James
Thurber, I believe.
------------Original Message------------
From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, Sep-24-2007 9:44 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
Oh heavens, Lawrence, it was only a bit of levity. I rather liked the turn of
phrase ... it amused me. But then, I'm easily amused. If I want to "quibble"
a point, I'm generally slightly more transparent about it.
Julie Krueger
On 9/24/07, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Ah, a typo quibble! My favorite kind.
------------Original Message------------
From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, Sep-24-2007 9:07 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
<<I read Origin of Species in 1958, but if there was something in it about what
attacks men to women and vice versa I don't recall it.>>
If it comes back to you, let me know....I'd be very interested....
Julie Krueger
On 9/24/07, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Among some 13 resources that Walter recommends for (I presume) a thorough
understanding of my poetry, Walter includes;
> 9. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
I really do think he could cut his list down to 1 -- some Old Charter.
Mike Geary
poetry technician
Memphis
----- Original Message -----
From: <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
To: < lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >; "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Lit-Ideas" <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx >
Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 2:53 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
>I strongly recommend the following texts:
>
> 1. *Breaking the spell*, Daniel Dennett
> 2. *The blind watchmaker*, Richard Dawkins
> 3. *The origin of species*, Charles Darwin
> 4. *The extended phenotype*, Richard Dawkins
> 5. *Casablanca*, film with Humphrey Bogart et al
> 6. All songs by Roy Orbison (some more than others)
> 7. *Groundwerk of the Metaphysics of Morals*, Immanuel Kant
> 8. All poems by Yvengeny Yevtushenko
> 10. Universal Declaration of the Rights of [Persons]
> 11. *I think I'm going back* and "The look of love* by Dusty Springfield
> 12. *Totem and Taboo*, Ziggie Freud
> 13. *Rear Window*, film by A. Hitchcock
>
> Cheers,
>
> Walter O.
> On vacation on the Rock of the Avalon
>
>
>
> Quoting Lawrence Helm < lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
>
>> Thanks to my misreading of Julie's note, I have found myself thinking
>> about
>> Mike's poem all morning.
>
>>
>
>> If we examine the way our species developed, we see that in general, men
>> selected women for their beauty and women selected men for their ability
>> to
>> take care of them. Perhaps then, the grand passions have typically
>> belonged to men rather than women because look there: isn't she
>> beautiful?
>> Isn't she perfectly wonderful (meaning beautiful in movement and speech)?
>
>>
>
>> Think of all the grand-passion love poetry written by men. What of the
>> objects of their passion? Did any of those women write poetry? No, of
>> course not. They were beautiful. They didn't need to.
>
>>
>
>> Now, perhaps our hunter-gatherer ancestors did it better than we do
>> today.
>> She's hot and he's hot so they move in together -- don't even bother with
>> marriage. And as for a man providing for a woman, well maybe. She can
>> after
>> all get a job and provide for herself. But that is a recent development.
>> We
>> still have all those hunter-gatherer genes back there trying to guide us
>> and
>> bother us. Look, there: she is beautiful, we read in Mike's poem. Okay
>> so
>> far, but she doesn't reciprocate. There, Mike had the grand passion and
>> poured his heart out to her and she merely used him in some way. She
>> wanted
>> something material from him -- not a grand passion -- so in disgust he
>> gave
>> it to her and she abandoned him -- like a whore.
>
>>
>
>> I take that as a symbol for certain sorts of relationships. Think of
>> Somerset Maugham's Of Human Bondage.
>
>>
>
>> Yes, there are women who have grand passions. Think of the astronaut and
>> her
>> diaper. What did that guy look like, by the way? I'll bet he wasn't
>> beautiful.
>
>>
>
>> Lawrence
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ------------Original Message------------
>
>> From: "Lawrence Helm"< lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>> Date: Mon, Sep-24-2007 9:03 AM
>
>> Subject: Re: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
>
>> At the risk of giving Leftists ammunition for several future cheap shots,
>> I'll confess that I thought Julie had written, "thanks . . . for sharing
>> your
>> guilt with us." And read the poem again very carefully and was just
>> about to
>> post an alternate view of what the poem really meant -- guilt was there
>> superficially in Cuchulain on the beach slaying his son, OJs gloves --
>> the
>> guilt of getting carried away by passion, but not in the image of the
>> worthy
>> woman who can step up like William Blake, and so he hopes and loves, but
>> he
>> is betrayed and made a clown for his love is broken . . . and then I read
>> Julie's note again. Alas, I need new glasses.
>
>>
>
>> Lawrence
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> ------------Original Message------------
>
>> From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>> Date: Sun, Sep-23-2007 11:31 PM
>
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
>
>> Last line packs a punch .... thanks as always for sharing your gift with
>> us.
>
>>
>
>> Julie Krueger
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> On 9/23/07, Mike Geary < atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Chuchlain should be Cuchulain as every good Irishman knows and Irishwomen
>> too.
>
>>
>
>> Mike Geary
>
>>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: Mike Geary
>
>> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 12:12 PM
>
>> Subject: [lit-ideas] SUNDAY POEM
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> HEARTBREAK MOTEL
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> This is how it happened
>
>> if it did
>
>> I can't remember for sure
>
>> all I know is
>
>> I was sitting at a sidewalk cafe
>
>> trying on OJ's gloves
>
>> when along came this rain
>
>> silver coins sparking on the black streets
>
>> and like out of the strains of "Maria"
>
>> steps this wild woman
>
>> a "Bible black, sloe black, crow black" woman
>
>> steps up like William Blake
>
>> all wall-eyed and says
>
>> (actually, she says "saze"
>
>> except in first person singular)
>
>> "I say," she saze,
>
>> "ain't I done you before?"
>
>> and so it happened
>
>> (again? I can't remember):
>
>> skin like silk sheets
>
>> that she'd never known
>
>> the feel of
>
>> and I feel love
>
>> like Pavarotti's reach,
>
>> but she wants to get paid,
>
>> like Chuchlain on the beach,
>
>> love like
>
>> despair beyond repair,
>
>> or was it more like that day in Calabria
>
>> Feast of the Assumption
>
>> Holy Mary Mother of God
>
>> what have I done?
>
>> Recitar! Vesti la giubba.
>
>> as Eliot might have said.
>
>> She wanted her money.
>
>> Ridi, Pagliaccio,
>
>> sul tuo amore infranto!
>
>> as Eliot surely would have said:
>
>> Shit happens.
>
>> So I paid.
>
>> Love took her hundred dollars and left.
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Mike Geary
>
>> Memphis
>>
>
>
>
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