[lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
- From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 23:07:08 -0500
<<I read *Origin of Species *in 1958, but if there was something in it about
what attacks men to women and vice versa I don't recall it.>>
If it comes back to you, let me know....I'd be very interested....
Julie Krueger
On 9/24/07, Mike Geary <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Among some 13 resources that Walter recommends for (I presume) a thorough
> understanding of my poetry, Walter includes;
> > 9. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms
>
> I really do think he could cut his list down to 1 -- some Old Charter.
>
> Mike Geary
> poetry technician
> Memphis
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <wokshevs@xxxxxx>
> To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Lawrence Helm" <
> lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: "Lit-Ideas" <Lit-Ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, September 24, 2007 2:53 PM
> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
>
>
> >I strongly recommend the following texts:
> >
> > 1. *Breaking the spell*, Daniel Dennett
> > 2. *The blind watchmaker*, Richard Dawkins
> > 3. *The origin of species*, Charles Darwin
> > 4. *The extended phenotype*, Richard Dawkins
> > 5. *Casablanca*, film with Humphrey Bogart et al
> > 6. All songs by Roy Orbison (some more than others)
> > 7. *Groundwerk of the Metaphysics of Morals*, Immanuel Kant
> > 8. All poems by Yvengeny Yevtushenko
> > 10. Universal Declaration of the Rights of [Persons]
> > 11. *I think I'm going back* and "The look of love* by Dusty Springfield
> > 12. *Totem and Taboo*, Ziggie Freud
> > 13. *Rear Window*, film by A. Hitchcock
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Walter O.
> > On vacation on the Rock of the Avalon
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> >
> >> Thanks to my misreading of Julie's note, I have found myself thinking
> >> about
> >> Mike's poem all morning.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> If we examine the way our species developed, we see that in general,
> men
> >> selected women for their beauty and women selected men for their
> ability
> >> to
> >> take care of them. Perhaps then, the grand passions have typically
> >> belonged to men rather than women because look there: isn't she
> >> beautiful?
> >> Isn't she perfectly wonderful (meaning beautiful in movement and
> speech)?
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Think of all the grand-passion love poetry written by men. What of the
> >> objects of their passion? Did any of those women write poetry? No, of
> >> course not. They were beautiful. They didn't need to.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Now, perhaps our hunter-gatherer ancestors did it better than we do
> >> today.
> >> She's hot and he's hot so they move in together -- don't even bother
> with
> >> marriage. And as for a man providing for a woman, well maybe. She can
> >> after
> >> all get a job and provide for herself. But that is a recent
> development.
> >> We
> >> still have all those hunter-gatherer genes back there trying to guide
> us
> >> and
> >> bother us. Look, there: she is beautiful, we read in Mike's
> poem. Okay
> >> so
> >> far, but she doesn't reciprocate. There, Mike had the grand passion
> and
> >> poured his heart out to her and she merely used him in some way. She
> >> wanted
> >> something material from him -- not a grand passion -- so in disgust he
> >> gave
> >> it to her and she abandoned him -- like a whore.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> I take that as a symbol for certain sorts of relationships. Think of
> >> Somerset Maugham's Of Human Bondage.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Yes, there are women who have grand passions. Think of the astronaut
> and
> >> her
> >> diaper. What did that guy look like, by the way? I'll bet he wasn't
> >> beautiful.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Lawrence
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> ------------Original Message------------
> >
> >> From: "Lawrence Helm"<lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >> Date: Mon, Sep-24-2007 9:03 AM
> >
> >> Subject: Re: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
> >
> >> At the risk of giving Leftists ammunition for several future cheap
> shots,
> >> I'll confess that I thought Julie had written, "thanks . . . for
> sharing
> >> your
> >> guilt with us." And read the poem again very carefully and was just
> >> about to
> >> post an alternate view of what the poem really meant -- guilt was there
> >> superficially in Cuchulain on the beach slaying his son, OJs gloves --
> >> the
> >> guilt of getting carried away by passion, but not in the image of the
> >> worthy
> >> woman who can step up like William Blake, and so he hopes and loves,
> but
> >> he
> >> is betrayed and made a clown for his love is broken . . . and then I
> read
> >> Julie's note again. Alas, I need new glasses.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Lawrence
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> ------------Original Message------------
> >
> >> From: "Julie Krueger" <juliereneb@xxxxxxxxx>
> >
> >> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >> Date: Sun, Sep-23-2007 11:31 PM
> >
> >> Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Sunday POEM
> >
> >> Last line packs a punch .... thanks as always for sharing your gift
> with
> >> us.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Julie Krueger
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> On 9/23/07, Mike Geary < atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> >> Chuchlain should be Cuchulain as every good Irishman knows and
> Irishwomen
> >> too.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Mike Geary
> >
> >>
> >
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >
> >> From: Mike Geary
> >
> >> To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >
> >> Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2007 12:12 PM
> >
> >> Subject: [lit-ideas] SUNDAY POEM
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> HEARTBREAK MOTEL
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> This is how it happened
> >
> >> if it did
> >
> >> I can't remember for sure
> >
> >> all I know is
> >
> >> I was sitting at a sidewalk cafe
> >
> >> trying on OJ's gloves
> >
> >> when along came this rain
> >
> >> silver coins sparking on the black streets
> >
> >> and like out of the strains of "Maria"
> >
> >> steps this wild woman
> >
> >> a "Bible black, sloe black, crow black" woman
> >
> >> steps up like William Blake
> >
> >> all wall-eyed and says
> >
> >> (actually, she says "saze"
> >
> >> except in first person singular)
> >
> >> "I say," she saze,
> >
> >> "ain't I done you before?"
> >
> >> and so it happened
> >
> >> (again? I can't remember):
> >
> >> skin like silk sheets
> >
> >> that she'd never known
> >
> >> the feel of
> >
> >> and I feel love
> >
> >> like Pavarotti's reach,
> >
> >> but she wants to get paid,
> >
> >> like Chuchlain on the beach,
> >
> >> love like
> >
> >> despair beyond repair,
> >
> >> or was it more like that day in Calabria
> >
> >> Feast of the Assumption
> >
> >> Holy Mary Mother of God
> >
> >> what have I done?
> >
> >> Recitar! Vesti la giubba.
> >
> >> as Eliot might have said.
> >
> >> She wanted her money.
> >
> >> Ridi, Pagliaccio,
> >
> >> sul tuo amore infranto!
> >
> >> as Eliot surely would have said:
> >
> >> Shit happens.
> >
> >> So I paid.
> >
> >> Love took her hundred dollars and left.
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Mike Geary
> >
> >> Memphis
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
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