[lit-ideas] Re: Mark Steyn on Gun Control
- From: "Lawrence Helm"<lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2007 21:53:35 +0000
We do disagree here, Paul. I think a group of robbers who broke into the
property of an 84 year old woman who has to use a walker to get around on, and
then decides to approach her; which they apparently had the wisdom not to do,
ought to be shot. The law allows for that. If they were to run away, she
wouldn't legally be allowed to shoot them. But if they come after her, then
she is permitted to shoot them -- and ought to.
All of my sympathies are with the 84 year old woman with her walker. None are
with the thieves.
As long as we have bad guys out there wanting and willing to do as much harm as
possible to the innocent, then the more tools we can give them for their
protection, the better. You and Obama would feel critical of the little old
lady defending herself and her property, but you, in my opinion, have this dead
wrong. You have it backwards. Your vote should be on the side of the victim
and not the predator. But you and Obama make the victim the aggressor once she
defends herself against violence; which is a logical absurdity.
Lawrence
------------Original Message------------
From: "Paul Stone" <pastone@xxxxxxxxx>
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Mon, Apr-23-2007 2:00 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Mark Steyn on Gun Control
As I said a few days back to which no one responded... the problem is not that
a lot of people have guns, it's that a lot of people think they NEED guns,
WANT to have guns and want to USE guns against people. The main problem is that
there are people who think that killing other people is acceptable. Did you see
the thing on the news last night (perhaps it was on 60 Minutes) about people
who refused to "snitch" on people. That's a big problem. The problem lies in a
society where it is NOT the case that a "vast majority of people" think it's
not okay to be a criminal. That's the problem with the USA... there is a large,
dangerous criminal contingent AND there is virtually no gun control. It's those
two things combined that makes it dangerous. But to think that just because
everyone else has a gun, you should get one too? That is the real 'irrational'
thinking you talk of Lawrence.
Obama was partly right -- but as a politician, he looks self-serving -- that
it's really a problem in society and is not just one of violence. It's because
people, a WHOLE lot of people actually think it's okay to step on other people,
take their shit, by force if necessary, and kill others for looking at them
wrong. Even when I lived in Toronto (the largest major city and one of only
THREE in the whole of Canada) there was no place I would feel unsafe. There
just wasn't. If I drive across the border into Detroit, I feel unsafe and the
primary reason is not because I have some kind of prejudiced attitude towards
Americans (although I do), it's because I'm fully aware that a whole shitload
of people have guns and that's terrifying to me. I know someone who got shot
repeatedly for pissing on a tree in Detroit. Is that why you should have guns?
So you can shoot on a drunk party-goer for threatening your Elm tree? In the
back -- into the car as it was racing away after you shot the guy? It's that
mentality + the guns that make the chos of the world possible. Retribution --
you would probably call it protecting yourselves.
Here is a response that I wrote the other day, but forgot to send:
LH: Did you read her comment? " If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd
be 6 feet under by now."
Yes... if they "DARED" to "come close to me"... well that's a GREAT fucking
reason for killing someone. Oooh, you got too close to me! Nevermind how she
sounds... listen to you defending the good ole granny. Did you hear YOUR
comment?
LH: She is saying for those not used to ideas of self-defense, "if they were to
come toward me, I would shoot them rather than let them get to me."
As if she can positively discern their intentions. Oh, but I forgot, kill them
first, ask questions later. And your laws CONDONE it as you proved.
LH: If you read her comments, you will see that when they tried to steal her
farm machinery, she didn't find it necessary to "put them six feet under," she
shot out their tires and held them for the police.
And I FULLY trust an EIGHTY TWO year old, former miss america to shoot at
people's tires safely. That's a great way to live or die as the case may be.
Did you know that the government requires repeated driver's licenses after the
age of 80? And you want the same granny who can't turn left on a green to be
able to shoot out people's tires? What would you say if someone tried to shoot
out the tires and accidentally shot the driver? In the back? As he was pulling
over, after the first shot? No doubt, she'd get off. And, evidently, that's the
way it oughta be in the good ole u s of a.
paul
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