[lit-ideas] Re: France, a Rogue State in 1801-05

  • From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 16:46:57 -0700

Kagan has taught at West Point, is considered a distinguished military
historian but, no doubt he doesn't measure up to your credentials which are
what?  Of course one doesn't needed credentials to present evidence, the
assumptions from which you might be able to draw a conclusion (missing in
the note below). He just completed the first volume on Napoleon.  I thought
there were to be three total volumes but Amazon.com says four.  I heard him
on C-Span and he had some interesting ideas.  

 

I don't know what the heck is wrong with you guys.  A distinguished
historian introduces some new ides and you and Andreas do a little clown
act.   If you don't have anything to add, any reference or example backing
up your claim that you know more than Kagan, then what are you doing?  Do
either of you know what a World Order is?  I know Andreas doesn't from what
he said, and I don't think you do either because you focused on "Hegemon"
and not the World order of which Britain was the protector and against which
Napoleon reacted.

 

 

Lawrence

 

 

 

 

 

 

  _____  

From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Simon Ward
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 2:41 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: France, a Rogue State in 1801-05

 

Britain wasn't the Hegemon until after 1805, once Nelson had defeated the
French and Spanish Navies at Trafalgar. Before then, though dominating naval
trade, she was unable to project her power onto the Continent. 

 

Note that Trafalgar enabled Britian to send an army onto the Iberian
Peninsular in 1808, the same army that crossed the Pyranees in 1814, even as
Britain was fighting the War of 1812 across the Atlantic. 

 

After 1805, based on its naval supremacy, Britain might be said to have been
the Hegemon. Before 1805, she was merely competing for the position, albeit
with a distinct financial advantage.

 

It sounds to me as though Kagan is erroneously projecting a world view back
in time supported by a deficient knowledge of European history.

 

Simon

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Lawrence <mailto:lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>  Helm 

To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 

Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 10:21 PM

Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: France, a Rogue State in 1801-05

 

Yes it is pretty funny that you don't see what is going on.  Read my note
more carefully and you will see that the US is the hegemon guaranteeing the
present world order.  Just as Britain was the hegemon guaranteeing the world
order in Napoleon's day.  Your skewed view is apparently made up out of
whole cloth not relating to anything -- except a skewed view.  

 

 

Lawrence

 

-----Original Message-----
From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Andreas Ramos
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 1:30 PM
To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: France, a Rogue State in 1801-05

 

> A Rogue State wants to overturn the current "World Order."

 

Lawrence, can you think of a country today that is actually trying to
overturn the world 

order? Which country is trying to change everything? Cancel treaties? Seize
the planet? 

Start pointless wars? Feed weapons and money into other wars?

 

> It was impossible to listen to Kagan and not see the parallels between the

> 1801-05 period which was the subject of Kagan's book and the present day.

 

It's pretty funny that you say this. Apparently, it really is impossible for
some people not 

to see what is going on.

 

yrs,

andreas

www.andreas.com

 

 

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