[lit-ideas] Re: France, a Rogue State in 1801-05

  • From: "Andreas Ramos" <andreas@xxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2006 20:42:06 -0700

Oh, Lawrence, here you go again. A whole string of misunderstandings and one-sided understanding.

The World Order? Just who introduced the phrase "New World Order"? That was Bush Sr. But it turned out to be just a marketing slogan, similar to his "thousand points of light", without any meaning.

And what was the old world order? It's been there for the last 50 years: NATO, SEATO, the UN, the vast array of international treaties, and so on.

And that is precisely what the Neocons have disrupted. They are trying to destory the old world order and create a new one: a unilateralist global hyperpower that is unbound by any treaties and decides for the rest of the planet, based on its self interests. That's why it's so funny that you talk about rogue states, and then you seize on Iran as the rogue state, when Iran has zero chance of invading anything beyond its immediate neighbors. The rogue state that is disrupting the world order is staring you in the face, and you can't see it.

As for 1805: who was the superpower of the 1700s? Vast wealth, massive global navy, standing armies, and a worldwide array of colonies? So utterly typical of your narrow self-interest that you think it was the Brits. It's not really your fault, you have an American education and thus you don't know what the censors deleted from the US schoolbooks. I'll give you a clue: What is the pidgeon standing on in Trafalgar Square?

A distinguished historian at West Point doesn't impress me much. The Bush White House has a whole string of distinguished professors from major universities. Look at the fiasco they got us into. It may well be the biggest disaster of any major country for the last 300 years.

Simon is right: this is just more neocon.

Have you seen the US Army's new T-shirts? "War Crimes. Been There. Done That." What a bunch of jokers. Shall I send you one?

yrs,
andreas
www.andreas.com


----- Original Message ----- From: "Lawrence Helm" <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, August 13, 2006 4:46 PM
Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: France, a Rogue State in 1801-05



Kagan has taught at West Point, is considered a distinguished military
historian but, no doubt he doesn't measure up to your credentials which are
what?  Of course one doesn't needed credentials to present evidence, the
assumptions from which you might be able to draw a conclusion (missing in
the note below). He just completed the first volume on Napoleon.  I thought
there were to be three total volumes but Amazon.com says four.  I heard him
on C-Span and he had some interesting ideas.



I don't know what the heck is wrong with you guys.  A distinguished
historian introduces some new ides and you and Andreas do a little clown
act.   If you don't have anything to add, any reference or example backing
up your claim that you know more than Kagan, then what are you doing?  Do
either of you know what a World Order is?  I know Andreas doesn't from what
he said, and I don't think you do either because you focused on "Hegemon"
and not the World order of which Britain was the protector and against which
Napoleon reacted.


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