[lit-ideas] Re: Faith, Poltics and influence

  • From: "Mike Geary" <atlas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: <lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2008 22:11:17 -0500

LH:
>>Marlena wanted to bring up Palin's Christianity as a reason for not voting 
>>for her; which caused me to check out Obama's more than I have.    Obama's 
>>Black Liberation Theology strikes me as far more dangerous to the nation than 
>>Palin's Pentecostalism .<<

I have a suggestion.  Write in Robert Paul.  He's clean.  And he's articulate.  
If I didn't love Obama (my Dalai Lama) so much, I'd write him in.  You go, RP!

Mike Geary
Memphis
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Lawrence Helm 
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 9:49 PM
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Faith, Poltics and influence


  I knew an AOG pastor in Aerospace and we used to debate certain matters, 
especially the rule against divorce; which is why he was working in Aerospace.

   

  I knew an AOG pastor who was starting out in a church and needed help 
checking theological fine points.  He asked me for help and I gave it.

   

  I attended a Bible Study at an AOG church for a few months once.  

   

  I studied AOG doctrine in regard to the speaking of tongues, the second 
baptism.  

   

  I have read several books on the Pentecostal movement., Sandeen and Marsden, 
for example.

   

  Certain in-laws have been members of AOG churches.

   

  Pentecostal churches grew out of the Azusa Street movement.  They accept much 
of Darby's dispensationalism; although Darby didn't believe the gifts were for 
today, and Pentecostals do.

   

  If you intend to discredit Palin by denigrating Pentecostalism, you have a 
tough row to hoe.  Pentecostalism comprises a significant Christian presence in 
the U.S.    

   

  You who mention the separation of church and state should be aware that the 
state cannot dictate matters of conscience.  Thus, Palin can subscribe to 
whatever Christian denomination she likes and the State must not interfere.

   

  Marlena wanted to bring up Palin's Christianity as a reason for not voting 
for her; which caused me to check out Obama's more than I have.    Obama's 
Black Liberation Theology strikes me as far more dangerous to the nation than 
Palin's Pentecostalism .

   

  Lawrence

   

   

   

   

  From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Julie Krueger
  Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:16 PM
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Faith, Poltics and influence

   

  I sent you a link on another thread.  I'll be interested to see what you 
think about it.

  In the meantime, what exactly do you know about Pentecostalism?  either 
through study or experience?  Keep in mind that as extreme as they tend to be, 
as fundamentalist as they are,  the mainstream Pentecostals have declared the 
sect which Palin belongs to as so far over the edge as to be heretical.  I do 
know this world.  Please believe me.  Not the so profoundly extreme world of 
the Wassilla churches, but the normative Pentecostals.  I lived for several 
years in the city where the AG Headquarters is.  Believe it or not, I consider 
a lot of what they believe and practice to be constructive and not out of touch 
with reality.  I also believe that a lot of what Pentecostalism is attracts 
alot of opportunists and extremists.  That's one of the real dangers of the 
denominational movement.  More about that another time, if it proves to be 
relevant, helpful, or enlightening.

  Julie Krueger

  On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:

  You are troubled about Palin being influenced  by Pentecostalism.  I am 
trouble about Obama being influenced by Black Liberation Theology.  The former 
is one of the Christian denominations.  The latter is . . rather racist and 
hateful.    I know that Leftist think that when black people do it, it isn't 
racism, but I don't buy that.   Also, there is too much narrowness in Black 
Liberation Theology.   In the churches I'm familiar with, they believe in 
preaching the "whole counsel of God."  I don't have the impression that Obama 
got that from Wright.

   

  Lawrence

   

  From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Julie Krueger
  Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 6:23 PM


  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Faith, Poltics and influence

   

  Let's pretend/assume that I embrace your perspective re. Wright & Kalnins.

  Are the relationship between Wright & Obama vs. Kalnins & Palin suffiicient 
for responsibly voting for one or the other to serve as Pres/VP?

  Julie krueger

  On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:

  Marlena,

   

  I just looked up the Wasilla Assembly of God Church.   Seems to be a typical 
AG church.  Here's a nice note from the church wishing all the candidates well: 
 http://wasillaag.org/index.php?s=au&nid=3731&news_id=8075 

   

  Also here is a note about whether her pastor said John Kerry would go to Hell 
in 2004. http://wasillaag.org/index.php?s=au&nid=3731&news_id=8216 

   

  If you listened to any of the tapes from Wright or the conversation with 
James Cone, you don't find nice notes or wishing anyone well.  It "troubles me 
when someone who is passionately devoted to those notions is in a position of 
possibly wielding the power to impose [his] beliefs on the country and even the 
world."

   

  Lawrence

   

  From: lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:lit-ideas-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
On Behalf Of Julie Krueger
  Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 4:51 PM


  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx

  Subject: [lit-ideas] Re: Faith, Poltics and influence

   

  AOG is a legitimate denomination, as are the Souther Baptists, the Methodist, 
etc.  The Church that Palin has been involved in for 25 years, from the time 
when she was baptized there at age 12, holds such over-the-top, extreme 
doctrines and dogmas that the AG has actually banned them from the AG 
organization, deeming them heretical.

  I don't know about you, but when the AG calls an Evangelical, Pentacostal 
group heretical, it is a pretty good indication that they are truly radical 
extremists.  That in and of itself wouldn't bother me -- they are surely free 
to worship as they see fit and have whatever perspective they wish of the 
ultimate trajectory of the human rae.

  It troubles me, though, when someone who is passionately devoted to those 
notions is in a position of possibly wielding the power to impose her personal 
beliefs on the country and even the world.

  The Pentacostal sect Sarah Palin belongs to is highy militant, and has very 
specific agendas on how to ensure that their brand of Christianity takes over 
the world order -- w/ physical warfare if helpful or necessary.

  I know it was posted on this list and so I won't send the link a second time, 
but please,  Lawrence, go back and look at the "weird theology of wasilla" 
article.  It's not a tabloid picture.  It's an objective look at what Palin 
believes, what drives her, and the kinds of things that she would feel 
imperative to orchestrate if she were assistand leader of the free world.

  The word "free" would have to be eradicated for starters.

  I spent years as a kid in the AG environment.  I'm extremely familiar with 
their doctrines, prognostications, etc.  And I do know an extremely fringe 
group when I see it.  Along the lines of Jim Jones, ya know?  

  Julie Krueger

  On Sun, Sep 14, 2008 at 6:13 PM, Lawrence Helm <lawrencehelm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
wrote:

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Land

  Hey, Richard Land is a Southern Baptist who lives, I don't know where he 
lives, but I don't think its Alaska.  What is the issue you are pushing 
Marlena?  I thought you were arguing about Palin.  She belong to an AOG church 
and then switch to a non-denominationalist church.  What does Land have to do 
with Palin?  Have you given up on Palin and decided to indict all of 
Conservative Christianity?

  I, on the other hand, am sticking to the subject.  Obama credits Wright with 
changing his life.  Wright subscribes to the Black Liberation Theology of James 
Cone.  It is fair to look at what Wright says.  He preached to Obama for 17 
years.  And it is fair to listen to the teachings of James Cone who created, 
along with Hopkins, the theology that Wright subscribes to.

  Lawrence Helm


  -----Original Message-----
  From:  eternitytime1@xxxxxxx
  Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:57 PM
  To: lit-ideas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
  Subject: [lit-ideas] Faith, Poltics and influence

  Hi, Lawrence,
  Actually, as you know, I was pointing out the influence of the Far
  Christian Right on the Republican Party.

  Who has the power in the Republican Party?  Who threatened McCain with
  sure defeat if he did not bow to their wishes?  What else has been
  hanging, now, over his head?  And, I LIKED McCain!  I did!  but, I do
  not like the tactics being used against him at this point in time. He
  actually won the Republcian primary.  I think he had a wonderful chance
  to be the man of moderation that he has been--but he has tossed all
  that aside for the attempt to win--and Obama is not Bush with the Bush
  handlers. They actually could have had a decent issue-oriented race of
  integrity.

  Who has held McCain hostage?  Who?  Please go look at Richard Land
  (esp), Gary Bauer, etc.  Please.  Your Republican Party, and mine--is
  not the same as you remember it.

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