[liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: Contractions near a slash
- From: "John J. Boyer" <johnjboyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:40:48 -0600
Forward translation will always take priority, but there are now users
who are concerned about back-translation.
There are rules for translating the occasional mathematical expressions
within literary texts. Strictly speaking, they should be translated with
the Nemeth Code. The liblouis tables have been tweaked to give a
reasonable translation. The same is true of other translators. As might
be expected, such tweaks can produce odd results in back-translation. To
get an accurate translation of math expressions, even simple ones, they
would have to be expressed in MathML and parsed by liblouisxml.
John
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 09:25:35PM -0800, John Gardner wrote:
> Back translation of braille will always have ambiguities. I do not believe
> that forward translation should be compromized in order to make back
> translation occasionally better.
>
> I have another question. Why should something not within math tags be
> translated as math braille? I was under the impression that expressions
> containing non-literary symbols such as = or + should be translated as
> computer braille. Is there a rule? Mike?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
> Boyer
> Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:09 PM
> To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: Contractions near a slash
>
> After it has parsed and interpreted a MathML expression liblouisxml calls
> liblouis with a special math table to do the final translation.
> For Nemeth, this table is nemeth.ctb. It uses the include opcode to read
> another table called nemethdefs.cti. This table then includes the
> character-definitions table chardefs.cti. This may be one source of
> confusion. Perhaps nemethdefs.cti should contain all character definitions
> and leave the literary character-definitions table, chardefs.cti, to go its
> own way. However, the line between literary and math can be blurry. For
> example, a popular magazine article might contain the equation pi=3.14159,
> not enclosed in MathML but simply part of qe text. So the literary
> character-definition table must define symbols like = as math to get good
> translation and back-translation.
>
> John
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 03:04:53PM -0800, John Gardner wrote:
> > Am I confused or is something wrong with this philosophy? Math is
> > math, and literary is literary. Liblouis should regard anything not
> > enclosed in math tags as literary, shouldn't it? So the intermediate
> > representation needs to distinguish between symbols with math meanings
> > and the same symbols with their literary meaning. If it doesn't, then
> > all kinds of nasty things can happen.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > [mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John J.
> > Boyer
> > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:51 PM
> > To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: Contractions near a slash
> >
> > Translation of math is a joint effort of liblouisxml and liblouis.
> > liblouisxml makes a sort of intermediate representation of math.
> > liblouis has to know how to translate that.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 02:38:46PM -0800, Mike Sivill wrote:
> > > But with LibLouisXML handling MathML why do we need to define any
> > characters as math? Won't LouisXML know it's math when it encounters
> > the begin math tag? Isn't everything else handled as literary text?
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > [mailto:liblouis-liblouisxml-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of John
> > > J. Boyer
> > > Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 2:24 PM
> > > To: liblouis-liblouisxml@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Subject: [liblouis-liblouisxml] Re: Contractions near a slash
> > >
> > > Lars,
> > >
> > > The slash is actually ambiguous. It can be either a mathematical
> > > symbol or a punctuation mark. The former is more accurate. It is
> > > used a lot between words in English also, but usually doesn't cause
> > > problems. The effects could be more severe in other languages. The
> > > solution is not obvious. Any change can cause worse problems, as you
> > discovered.
> > >
> > > John
> > >
> > > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 01:22:14PM +0100, Lars Bj rndal wrote:
> > > > "John J. Boyer" <johnjboyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
> > > >
> > > > > Lars,
> > > > >
> > > > > I have been thinking about this problem. One solution would be
> > > > > to define "han/hun" with its own table entry, like defining
> > > > > contractions that cover more than one word. This would be like
> > > > > either/or in English, where the table entry would be word
> > > > > either/or 15-24-456-34-123-1235 Note that this problem does not
> > > > > occur with and/or, because "and" is always contracted. There may
> > > > > need to be a change in the code, but I'm not sure what. A change
> > > > > might introduce worse problems than we have now.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you. The problem with defining expressions like han/hun, is
> > > > that people may put whatever words they want infront and behind
> > > > the slash sign. So it will break a lot of situations.
> > > >
> > > > Lars
> > > > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 09:21:51PM +0100, Lars Bj rndal wrote:
> > > > >> Hello!
> > > > >>
> > > > >> While still working on the Norwegian liblouis tables, I found
> > > > >> an error, that I need some help to fix:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> The example is as follows: "han/hun" (he slash she). When using
> > > > >> xml2brl, the words "han" and "hun" is not contracted when the
> > > > >> slash is inbetween. In the table No-No-g0.utb, the slash
> > > > >> character is defined as math, which I suppose is correct. So
> > > > >> what's the trick here to get "han/hun" correct through liblouis?
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Lars
> > > > For a description of the software and to download it go to
> > > > http://www.jjb-software.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > My websites:
> > > http://www.godtouches.org
> > > http://www.jjb-software.com
> > > Location: Madison, WI, USA
> > >
> > > For a description of the software and to download it go to
> > > http://www.jjb-software.com
> > >
> > > For a description of the software and to download it go to
> > > http://www.jjb-software.com
> >
> > --
> > John J. boyer; President, Chief Software Developer JJB Software, Inc.
> > http://www.jjb-software.com
> > Madison, WI USA
> > Developing software for people with disabilities
> >
> > For a description of the software and to download it go to
> > http://www.jjb-software.com
> >
> > For a description of the software and to download it go to
> > http://www.jjb-software.com
>
> --
> John J. Boyer, Executive Director
> GodTouches Digital Ministry, Inc.
> http://www.godtouches.org
> Madison, Wisconsin, USA
> Peace, Love, Service
>
> For a description of the software and to download it go to
> http://www.jjb-software.com
>
> For a description of the software and to download it go to
> http://www.jjb-software.com
--
John J. boyer; President, Chief Software Developer
JJB Software, Inc.
http://www.jjb-software.com
Madison, WI USA
Developing software for people with disabilities
For a description of the software and to download it go to
http://www.jjb-software.com
Other related posts:
