[LRflex] Re: Scanned film vs Digital
- From: David Young <telyt@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 20:23:47 -0800
Chris Birchenhall wrote:
>Today our local Manchester Jacobs store had a Leica day and I was able to
>have a quick play with a M8 and a Digilux 3. I have to say that much to my
>surprise I did not order a M8 and was pleasantly surprised with the Digilux.
>With a little reflection I decided I am unlikely to buy either camera. At
>the same time, I am unsure I can afford a DMR and a suitable suite of R-lens
>to go with it.
I am thinking of a Digilux 3 as a backup to my DMR. Rose can use it
as a P&S and, if my R8/DMR ever fails again, I can use an adapter to
stick my "R" lenses on it! It seems a very nice rig... especially
for the price. BTW: The firmware in it was developed "in house" by
Leica, and is quite different in colour rendition, etc. (so I'm told)
than with it's Panasonic counterpart.
>As to the Digilux 3 I have to suggest this opens up a new Leica Digital SLR
>world to challenge the Leica R world. I can hear you screaming down the
>internet lines as I write that! Let me stress that I am not suggesting the
>Digilux 3 is at all comparable to a R8 or R9 with a DMR - and yes the finder
>in no way matches the SL2 finder.
As well, the sensor is considerably smaller, with it's consequent
problems of noise and lack of DOF. Still, one terrific camera for the money!
> My point is that the Digilux is a very
>useful Leica digital SLR for keen amateurs; guys who, even they can afford
>the best, are not in a position to make proper use of the best. I include
>myself in that latter group. As I aspire to do better I am still a Leica
>man. In my assessment the Digilux (and compact D-lux 3) will be money makers
>and a source of new Leica converts. On that basis I am confident there will
>be significant development of the Leica 4/3rds set of lens to work on the
>Japanese bodies. David's questionnaire asked us about the possibility of a
>"R10" with a different mount but had an adapter to take R lenses. Need I say
>more? The economics here is powerful. A Leica built - or commissioned -
>3/4rds body with an ability to use special adapters for R-lenses?
Dunno about the path you're considering here. The mythical R-10 is
to be a replacement for the R9 and co-exist with the 4/3rds system
camera(s). Leica want both! The R-10 they will build, the 4/3rds
system, they will buy.
As for adapters, Leica have announced, publicly, that they will build
an 'R' to 4/3rds adapter, and I have seen a prototype. Very nicely
finished. Of course, there are already lower cost, Chinese made
adapters, as there are for many other camera mounts. They work fine,
but that Leica one sure was slick!
>In the last week I have been tapping the minds of two Leica dealers in
>Manchester - both of whom had been at Photokina - and the UK Leica man at
>the Jacobs Leica Day. Here are some rumours and denials.
>
>- One informed dealer was surprised to hear of my hint at a R10 (which was
>base don David's survey). (I can note this dealer was dismayed at the
>quality of the new 16-21-24 multi-finder for the Ms.) The UK Leica man
>denied the idea of a R10; it turned out he was denying a film base R10 and
>suggested he had no knowledge of a digital R10. He suggested Leica was in
>M8-mode.
Leica is indeed, in "M8-mode"! And no self respecting salesman would
ever admit that an R-10 was coming, even if he knew it were... for it
will be a couple of years down the road, and he has R9s and DM-Rs to
sell in the meantime. Any acknowledgement of a future R-10 would only
encourage his customers to wait... and that he does not want for many
reasons... his commissions not being the least of them!
>- A second dealer talked of a monochrome version of the M8 rather than a
>version 2. The UK Leica man was dismissive of this "rumour".
The M8m (Monochrome) is not a rumour, though it's not being widely
talked about... even by Leica. However, it was publicly discussed at
the LHSA meet, in Wetzlar, and Leica indicated it should be available
"late spring". It will use the same/similar sensor as the M8,
yielding an "effective" 17megapixels in B&W only. Otherwise, same as the M8.
Again, no good salesman will admit to a product that's not yet
available, unless he has nothing to sell you at the moment. Then
he'll tell you what's "in the pipe" in order to keep you from buying
a competitor's product.
Give up on talking to dealers about future products. Most likely,
they don't know... and if they know, it's not in their best interest
to tell you! End of story.
>- I heard somewhere that the planned production plan for the M8 was 2500?
>Was that on here?
It was here, but you understood it incorrectly. The first shipment
was to be 2500 units. In past, Leica has missed so many deadlines
for new product introductions, that they felt it very important that
they fill the initial demand for the M8 in full, and on
schedule. Thus, the need for 2,500 cameras at once. I understand
that they did have that many to ship, but they are still rationing
them out as demand has exceeded their wildest dreams!
>The UK Leica man pointed out that he aims to sell several
>hundred M8s in the UK during this financial year alone! The M8 is not going
>to be a rare camera!
Indeed, it is not. I hope they sell 100,000 of 'em!
>I have to say I came away confident Leica has got it right, in the sense
>that I think they are on a path to financial recovery.... [snip]
>I only hope they manage to produce a M8 with a 0.54 finder!!
Alternative finder are something I know nothing about. Sorry!
As for 'getting it right"... I have to agree. It's the slickest
picture making machine I've ever seen. The digital does not get in
the way of using the camera. Compared to the Japanese wonders, it
does very little... but what it does (which is enough!) it does very
well, indeed! In all, it gives me great hope for the R-10!
>After all that here is my question!!!
>
>David writes: "the M8 and DMR (which I understand are the only 16bit cameras
>on the market below MF format) they are capable of more dynamic range than
>the best films."
>
>For me that is really important: any further information on this assertion?
>Dynamic range is one of major downsides of my Nikon D200. I was eagerly
>awaiting the Fuji S5 Pro in that regard.
Some have written me, off list, saying that they're not so sure about
whether the Leica's are 16 bit or not. Leica claim they are! All I
know is the dynamic range of shots from my DMR far exceed the dynamic
range that I got when list member Alex Hurst graciously loaned my his
Nikon D-200 for a day.
Hope this doesn't confuse the issue, too much!
Cheers!
---
David Young,
Logan Lake, CANADA
Wildlife Photographs: http://www.telyt.com/
Personal Web-pages: http://www3.telus.net/~telyt
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