[LRflex] Re: Politics are unavoidable
- From: Steve Barbour <steve.barbour@xxxxxxxxx>
- To: leicareflex@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Mon, 15 Feb 2010 18:17:02 -0800
On Feb 15, 2010, at 6:08 PM, Harry Standel wrote:
> Greetings,
> If you think that politics can be separated from photography∑or
> anything else∑in my view your sadly mistaken. So disgusted am I that
> I just unsubscribed to this forum. But rather than simply disappear I
> thought I‚d leave you with the following. Some years ago I subscribed
> to another photo forum (mflenses.com) which I thought was just up my
> alley. In fact I thought it was a great forum! And for years read
> emails and was an active participant. Well last November someone from
> Canada took some shots of Remembrance Day in Canada and I put my two
> cents worth in suggesting somewhat naively that all should view a
> particularly touching documentary film entitled „Section 60‰ which is
> the section of Arlington National Cemetery reserved for U.S.
> fatalities of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
> I received a particularly vitriolic answer from the forum‚s
> administrator (whose name is Attila -from Budapest, Hungary)
> condemning the U.S.
>
> I answered with the following email that I thought was unremarkable:
>
> Well Attila∑I, for one, don‚t condone war and while I respect your
> photographic skills I might have a bit of a dispute with you
> concerning the need for certain wars∑∑∑maybe like World War II!
>
> I don‚t know if you really believe that the Nazi armed conquest of
> Europe was potentially a good thing or if you think the „Arrow Cross
> Party‰ in Hungary were a just a „nice‰ group of guys. I really can‚t
> bring myself to believe that you‚d like having a swastika flying over
> city hall in Budapest but even if you did I suspect that you can‚t
> believe that the 40 year Cold War, fought, as a practical matter
> exclusively by the US was a waste of time.
>
> But likewise if there were no resistance by the US to either Adolph
> Hitler or the Soviet Union you‚d likely be celebrating either
> Hitler‚s or Joseph Stalin‚s birthday. And there wouldn‚t be any Ebay
> to buy lenses.
>
> He then removed both his and my emails and answered me off-line∑.with
> an email that you should read∑in its entirety as follows:
>
> 4 Feb 2007 Total posts: 24985
> [13.45% of total / 25.14 posts per day]
> Find all posts by Attila Location: Budapest,Hungary Website: http://
> www.hqdesign.eu Occupation: software developer Interests:
> photography,animals
>
> From: Attila To: badgerhill Posted: Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:56 pm Subject:
> ww2
> I did remove my answer , because we have nice free world , please
> continue in pm if you would like talk about it. Hungarians had no
> problem with German Army ever. We had problem with Red Army a lot and
> his followers still today. History always written by winner, this is
> for sure. Why USA went to WWII ? War wasn't in their homeland , why
> had to die American soldiers? Why they made mass killing in Japan
> with Nuclear bombs, Carpet bomb in Dresden? or in Vietnam? Easy to
> say Hitler and Stalin were bad figures, need to count their opponents
> too. America went to war at WW2 simple for money, Germany didn't paid
> back his loan what winners forced to Germany after WW1. This is one
> of the nastiest reason what I can imagine, send to war my own people
> just for money. Regime of Hitler wasn't worst than any others
> nowadays. Millions of Germans did love him, he did more for own
> nation than anybody else before. We had no same leader than him. We
> had idiot aristocrats who didn't care poor Hungarians on same way
> when Jews did it. Same time when palaces of Budapest built for Jews,
> millions of Hungarians were without foods. Hitler made mistakes for
> sure like everybody else. So I don't think so we have worst world now
> if Germans won. In fact I never seen better nation than Germans from
> every aspects. They are most trustworthy people in mass amount what I
> know. America (Israel) in their wars did kill lot more people than
> Germans and Hungarians ever did it. So who is wrong who is good only
> matter of power. One thing surely wrong to kill people , no matter
> this is done by Germans, Hungarians or Americans. In killing no
> difference even if Americans like to promote their bullshit they
> fight for good things. They fight only for money nothing else, this
> was in past and today too. They really not care those people who is
> living in IRAQ or Afghanistan for example ,care only for own "fat"
> businesses. When war is started in Afghanistan America did promise
> everything for people, Afghans won on ground for America without them
> America will lost lot of life and never won. What kept from their
> promise ? Nothing .... Peace is not good for America, need to sell
> guns.. need to take money from American tax payers etc. Disgusting..
> _________________
>
> Please visit Ebay shop
> and my company site
> http://www.hqdesign.eu/
>
>
>
>
> Needless to say I‚ve unsubscribed to his forum since Fascists are
> really not my cup of tea. In the final analysis, regardless of who
> likes Leica lenses or anything else I‚d rather not communicate with
> someone whose political views may be horrific and of which I'm
> totally ignorant.
> Harry
excellent Harry...
this list is very non political...
but in any case, please don't let the swinging door hit you in the butt,
Steve
>
> On Feb 15, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Neil Gould wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi David,
>>
>>> Date: Sun, 14 Feb 2010 11:30:17 -0800 (PST)
>>> From: David Simms <simmszee@xxxxxxxx>
>>> Subject: [LRflex] Re: introduction wrap-up
>>>
>>> My understanding is that this was supposed to be a forum
>> dedicated to
>>> sharing comments about leica R cameras, lenses and the
>> photographs
>>> produced by the above. As such, I, at least, don't
>> welcome political
>>> views and i consider their propagation through this medium
>> to be
>>> inconsistent with the aims of this list.
>>> I refer to "masked thugs vandalizing Vancouver Olympic
>> streets".
>>> Unless you've been chasing Asian gangs or bank robbers,
>> this would
>>> seem to be a thinly-veiled reference to Olympic
>> protestors. If you've
>>> got photographs to share; yes. Sharing your political
>> views: non
>>> merci.
>>>
>>> Any more of this crap and I'll be outta here.
>>>
>>> Dave, Clearwater, BC
>>>
>> Messages are received differently by different folks, and it
>> seems that this one is no exception. I did not interpret
>> Fred's message to be either a political statement or
>> thinly-veiled. Nor did I find it either offensive or
>> off-topic, since he was explaining his delayed reply to
>> comments from list members. What I do find offensive is the
>> imposition of a personal agenda from someone other than a
>> list owner or moderator in an attempt to control the
>> contributions of others, as such are a clear statement of
>> intolerance and a lack of respect. I have no idea why "Asian
>> Gangs" stand out for you as legitimate fodder for comment,
>> but, then again, I really don't care to know, either.
>>
>> Understanding that offensive comments are as unavoidable as
>> politics, I will simply continue to tolerate such brief and
>> sparse offenses and participate in what I think is one of
>> the best groups I have experienced in decades of on-line
>> group participation. Simply put, for me, such minute issues
>> don't come close to offsetting the benefits of the
>> knowledge, skill, and wonderful photography from around the
>> world presented by the members of this group. YMMV.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Neil
>>
>>
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>
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