RE: To Braille or Not to Braille
- From: Adrian Spratt <Adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 07:21:11 -0400
Gerald, I agree this list is about how to solve technical JAWS problems, but
this thread did raise questions about whether reliance on JAWS can
contribute to literacy limitations and, if maybe so, how JAWS can
nevertheless be used to overcome them. I'm guessing the thread has pretty
much run its course. James is sure to tell us.
-----Original Message-----
From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Gerald Levy
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 6:59 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: To Braille or Not to Braille
This may well be an interesting discussion, but it has no place on this
list. To Braile or not to Braille has absolutely nothing to do with JAWS.
Gerald
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brandon Keith" <brandonboy13@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2010 1:21 AM
Subject: Re: To Braille or Not to Braille
> This is a very interesting discussion...
> I've been blind all my life and hated Braille between the age of 8 to 15.
> Then I went through like two years where I read all the time Braille,
> and then I got a Braille+ and a computer with Jaws. From then I've
> only read a little Braille for a little math as well as music and that
> is it. The only problems I run up against are 1 formatting issues with
> like a MLA formatted paper and two the spelling thing. In fact my
> spelling was so bad when I started high school people tried to label
> me as disabled in some way, but because I had a 4.2 GPA where abouts
> they couldn't figure out in what... So my parents tried to make me
memorize words by rote with jaws.
> Needless to say that didn't work out :(. But I've found that constant
> emails, writing at least one paper a week for college and Mudding in
> my spare time have improved my spelling tremendously. I'm still super
> bad at spelling, but I also think I see more mistakes from my
> professor's emails than I see on most of the blind listsirves I'm
> on... :D Especially my English instructor!
> It is kind of nice though that Jaws reads most sighted people's
> spelling mistakes funny and most sighted people read my spelling
> mistakes funny. So I do paper switching with sighted people all the time.
> Also, I am always having sighted people coming up to me asking me
> where I get my audio books and whatnot because they are astounded I
> can read so much so fast :P. So there are advantages with Jaws and
> PDAs. (I'm sure if sighted people could get E-Text books with some
> kind of a screen reader it would sell super good :P).
> A big problem with adaptive technology is there is not a big market
> that realizes they need or can use all the awesome equipment out
> there, so there is no real competitive market. So personally I think
> sighted people should be targets for reading software as well as blind
> people. (Lets take away print! :O)...
> LOL this is Just what I'd like to see happen :P...
>
> Brandon Keith
>
> Check out
> MySpace: http://www.myspace.com/brandonkeithcom
> Also add me on facebook!
> brandonkeith
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "Drew Hunthausen" <dhunthausen@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:42 PM
> To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: RE: To Braille or Not to Braille
>
>> I totally agree. I went from fully sited to totally blind when I was
>> 12 and learned Braille after that. I love Braille though am not as
>> fast of a reader as many that have been reading it their whole life.
>> I'm in college right now, and use the computer and my Braille display
>> for my e-text books. I read some in Braille, but also just listen to
>> Jaws quite often. The times where the Braille display is absolutely
>> necessary is when I am writing papers.
>> I
>> have to write so many; and they aren't short. When I read through my
>> paper with Jaws alone, I miss many miss spelled words as well as
>> grammar mistakes and typos. It is so much easier to edit a paper when
>> you can actually read it. I'm just talking from my own experience, so
>> I don't know if others feel differently.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Adrian Spratt
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 9:20 PM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: To Braille or Not to Braille
>>
>> Hi, Lynn and the list.
>>
>> Reading everyone's perspective on this question has been
>> thought-provoking.
>> For many of us, it isn't an either/or question. The part of the brain
>> that absorbs the basics of reading shuts down sometime before
>> adolescence. As I understood the research when I looked into it, this
>> phase determines whether we will best read by sight or by touch. For
>> people who have never seen or lose their sight during that window,
>> braille should be taught. The enviable people I know who read braille
>> fast learned it during that time. Those of us who lost our vision
>> afterwards have a harder time picking up the speed necessary for
>> extensive use, although it can still be useful for note-taking,
>> poetry reading, computer code and other purposes.
>>
>> When I gained access to the written word on computers first via
>> TeleSensory and since then with JAWS, I reveled in my ability to
>> check spelling. I found that not only had I misspelled some words,
>> but also mispronounced them.
>> Any
>> word with a "v" or "be" was an adventure.
>>
>> Blindness isn't an across-the-board disability. Each of us is
>> affected differently, and we adapt in our own resourceful ways. I
>> agree that braille should be taught to young people and, ideally, to
>> older people, but in each instance with different expectations. The
>> ideology of braille can be hard to take for those of us whose ability
>> to benefit from it is limited by age and, in many cases, additional
>> disabilities. When braille is a less viable option, JAWS and, yes,
>> other screenreaders give us the means to gain control over spelling,
>> among many other important facets of communication.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Lynn Golightly
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 7:11 PM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: To Braille or Not to Braille
>>
>> Hi Michael and List,
>>
>> One of the aspects of my job at the Oklahoma Library for the Blind
>> and Physically Handicapped is Braille transcribing. I agree you can
>> read one letter at a time with JAWS and you can proofread that way.
>> However, when I proof a long document, I either need a Braille
>> display or the hard Braille copy. I could read the document one
>> letter at a time after I use the spellchecker, but that would take
>> some time. I often find I miss errors in my writing and/or
>> transcribing when I do not either have a Braille display or hard
>> Braille copy. Often when I am reading a document sentence or
>> paragraph at a time with JAWS I would swear the document was
>> error-free; I find out most of the time I was wrong.
>>
>> I am sure you can be literate with speech and other methods of learning.
>> However, for me Braille is like a sighted person's pencil and paper.
>> I can use it anywhere independent of carrying a note taker with
>> speech. Braille gives me so much more independence in the home with
>> labels, and at work when I need to write down a fast note or answer
>> one call after another call.
>>
>> I am afraid that due to the shortage of VI teachers and the lack of
>> Braille instruction for blind and visually impaired students, there
>> will be people who don't learn to be competent spellers or versatile
>> money managers. For me, Braille is the key to literacy and
>> independence. I also utilize JAWS and all manner of electronic
>> gadgets to augment my ability to perform my job and live
>> independently at home.
>>
>> Technology and Braille make good bed partners in my opinion. If I had
>> to choose one over the other, though, I would choose Braille.
>>
>> Vicky Golightly
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On
>> Behalf Of Michael Arnowitt
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 2010 5:30 PM
>> To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: To Braille or Not to Braille
>>
>> I would say literacy is more a matter of how much time and effort
>> you're willing to spend. Jaws can spell out any word for you and
>> speak punctuation.
>> Whenever I hear a name on the radio these days now that I am blind I
>> do get curious as to its spelling, and I find knowing the spelling
>> makes me remember words and names much better. You don't even need to
>> know any fancy Jaws command to read letter by letter, just put the
>> cursor at the beginning of the word and right arrow one by one. Jaws
>> could be a way to increase literacy, if you're willing to take the
>> time.
>>
>> I don't do texting, but from what I understand nobody spells out
>> words in texts, or intentionally misspells them, and these are mostly
>> sighted people working in a purely visual medium. It's part of the
>> times, not just a disease of the so-called illiterate blind. And I
>> have heard some very good writers say they proofread their writing by
>> reading it aloud. I certainly catch mistakes in my writing through
>> Jaws' speech output. So to me, there's really no superiority or
>> inferiority to learning language by writing, hearing, or feeling it.
>> It's really more a question of do you have the motivation and energy
>> to make the effort.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> Dave wrote: Jerry,
>>
>> Good point. and to make another point that was mentioned in this
>> forum, a very important aspect to learning and reading Braille is in
>> learning how to spell.
>>
>> I've seen far too many posters on various lists for the blind who are
>> writing at a 2nd grade level. It is clear to me that they are
>> spelling strictly based on how a word sounds
>>
>> --
>> JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>> Scripting mailing list:
>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW
>> List
>> instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to
>> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a
>> message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
>> subject line.
>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>> Alternative archives located at:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>
>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>> or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
>> Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> --
>> JFW related links: JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
>> Scripting mailing list:
>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com JFW
>> List
>> instructions: To post a message to the list, send it to
>> jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a
>> message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the
>> subject line.
>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>> Alternative archives located at:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>
>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>> or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
>> Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> --
>> JFW related links:
>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing
>> list:
>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>> JFW List instructions:
>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>> Alternative archives located at:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>
>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>> or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
>> Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> --
>> JFW related links:
>> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing
>> list:
>> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
>> JFW List instructions:
>> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
>> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
>> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
>> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
>> Alternative archives located at:
>> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>>
>> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
>> or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list.
>> Rather contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
> JFW related links:
> JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing
> list:
> http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
> JFW List instructions:
> To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To
> unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
> jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
> Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
> Alternative archives located at:
> http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
>
> If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list,
> or the way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather
> contact the list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
JFW related links:
JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/ Scripting mailing list:
http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
JFW List instructions:
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe
from this mailing list, send a message to jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the
word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
Alternative archives located at:
http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
--
JFW related links:
JFW homepage: http://www.freedomscientific.com/
Scripting mailing list:
http://lists.the-jdh.com/listinfo.cgi/scriptography-the-jdh.com
JFW List instructions:
To post a message to the list, send it to jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send a message to
jfw-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxx with the word unsubscribe in the subject line.
Archives located at: //www.freelists.org/archives/jfw
Alternative archives located at:
http://n2.nabble.com/JAWS-for-Windows-f2145279.html
If you have any concerns about the list, post received from the list, or the
way the list is being run, do not post them to the list. Rather contact the
list owner at jfw-admins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Other related posts:
