RE: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
- From: Adrian Spratt <Adrian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: <jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2011 14:56:15 -0400
The Kindle case followed a similar strategy, yes, but the NFB was only one of
at least three organizations that pursued it. The ACB and the U.S. Justice
Department were equally responsible, and the Justice Department used the
Arizona model to go after numerous other institutions of higher education.
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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Marquette, Ed
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 2:39 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Thanks for sharing this. I was unaware that NFB had taken on Google Docs
indirectly by taking on the universities that apparently mandate it. I think
that may have been the same strategy employed against the Kindle. There some
progress was made -- though much slower than would have been ideal.
Nevertheless, YEA for the NFB!
I reviewed the video which purports to demonstrate the challenges of using
Google Docs with a screen reader. The demonstration uses JAWS 12. It would
have been a little more effective had the demonstration pointed out that the
help section entitled "Access with a Screen Reader" actually gives bogus
instructions. The demonstrator merely mentions that, by pressing Alt, the user
is taken to the browser menu and not the applications menu. The "help" section
specifically warns against that and encourages the user to hit "ESCAPE" to
access he menus. The problem is that the ESCAPE key, in fact, does not take
the user to any menus. As it stands, the video could be criticized because the
person doing the demonstration apparently didn't read the "access with a screen
reader" text in the help section. Of course, I may be too critical. After
all, this presumably wasn't produced as an exhibit for a jury.
It is one thing to offer up an inaccessible application. It is something else
(and much worse) to offer up an application which suggests it may be
accessible, but it is not.
Who knows? Perhaps officials at New York University and Northwestern, the
universities taken on by the NFB, actually took accessibility into account
and, seeing a whole section in the help system devoted to access using a screen
reader, concluded, erroneously, that Google Docs was accessible.
You are all probably sick of hearing me go on and on about Google and Google
Docs. I'll shut up now.
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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Charles
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 12:34 PM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Hi,
In a news release dated 3/15/2011 the NFB has filed a complaint against two
Universities namely NEW York University and Northwestern University concerning
their adopting of software that is not accessible to the blind.
In their request to investigate made to the department of Justice Civil
Rights Department the NFB states the adopting of Google apps for education
which includes Google docs, g mail, etc;, discriminates against blind staff
and students.
A full copy of the news release can be found at: www.nfb.org
Charles
From: Marquette, Ed <mailto:Ed.Marquette@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 6:30 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
OK.
This "coding for an application" raises a good point. Indeed, Internet
Explorer, FireFox, and the like are applications; however, Websites have
progressed well beyond what we think of as traditional Websites.
More and more, I'm seeing applications migrate away from the client/server
model, where something is installed on a local PC, to Web-based applications,
where the application resides remotely and is only accessed through the browser.
For instance, I use a Web application at my office which is a pretty
sophisticated document management system.
By that, I mean only a shadow of a Microsoft Office document resides on the
local drive (and only for emergency back-up purposes). The real files are not
even located on a remote server that our firm owns. Instead, they reside
somewhere in a mountain cave in Utah.
When I want to access, search for, or save a document, Internet Explorer runs a
Web application that looks up or stores the document with a whole range of
information (e.g., author, creation date, last edit date, client number, matter
number, document name, type of law, type of document, and selected key words.).
The look-up operates much like a Google search operates or, in the
alternative, by field look-up.
There are competitive applications, but they all operate on the client/server
model.
The point is that more and more of these Web applications are appearing.
Fortunately, the one referenced above is pretty well behaved, particularly with
JAWS and its quick keys, or whatever they are called.
It does not, however, respond all that well to scripts. That, however, may be
my ineptitude as a script writer, though the scripts I wrote were hardly more
than macros, i.e., a series of keystrokes.
I would certainly like to see an accomplished script writer tackle, or try to
tackle, a Web application of general applicability.
I cannot think of an application with more general applicability than Google
Docs, but I do have my own selfish objectives that, in the interest of full
disclosure, I need to reveal. Still, a free application that can be shared in
a collaborative way with power that approaches Microsoft Office would be pretty
important to lots of people.
Google Docs is free. Microsoft Office doesn't come cheap.
Google Docs, however, may simply be too great a challenge. After all, all the
screen reader people seem to have given up on it.
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From: jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:jfw-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Bob W
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:48 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Peter, here's my thinking and I hope others will correct me if I'm wrong.
A website is not an application.
the applications involved would be your browser--i.e. or firefox, or chrome.
For that matter, google docs would not be an application either.
Just my thoughts.
Bob
A learning experience is one of those things that says, 'You know that thing
you just did? Don't do that.' Douglas Adams
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter <mailto:peterholdstock@xxxxxxx> Holdstock
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2011 5:06 AM
Subject: Re: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Hi, for many blind people dating is quite difficult and many dating websites
don’t seem too accessible, and I have seen a few posts from people trying to
get various websites working. I’d be very grateful if the website
www.plentyoffish.com was made accessible in some way. It is pretty accessible
at the mom ent so shouldn’t require too much work, but there are a
lot of extra links and information you have to try and bypass to get to the
useful stuff.
I may be the only one who wants that website accessible, but I hope not and I
think lots would benefit from a fully accessible dating site where it’s not
just disabled people.
Peter
Thanks.
Peter
From: John Martyn <mailto:johnrobertmartyn@xxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, March 25, 2011 8:33 AM
To: jfw@xxxxxxxxxxxxx ; jaws-users-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Coding for a new jaws accessible app
Hi folks,
As my 32nd birthday approaches, I think I am going to make a habit of picking
one new application per year to make jaws accessible. Picking Rhapsody was not
an easy task, but it taught me many things about an application that seems next
to impossible to make behave. I am taking off this summer from school and will
have the time to code a new application. Rhapsody Blind was a test to see if I
could pull it off, and it worked. I selfishly chose the first one, now I'm
looking for the popular vote on what you might want. I probably won't start
until this semester is over at the end of May, so this gives plenty of time to
decide. It would be a good idea to chat among each other and find out what is
needed or just plain want for entertainment purposes. So, let's open up the
floor and hear some suggestions.
Thanks,
John Martyn
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