Yes please do, I'm a visual learner. Written discriptions are too difficult for me to grasp sometimes, probably why I'm having trouble getting the star trails argument. By the way, if my opinion counts, I enjoy this forum alot. I didn't enjoy all the religious argueing a month or so ago, glad it was stopped, it reminded me too much of what I dislike in many christians. Until I ran across Dr Jones' website a couple months ago, I didn't know it was even argueable that the world didn't rotate or that it was possibly biblical. I've long been an avid reader of information refuting evolution and have enjoyed learning about this line of reasoning. If you do close the forum, I'll thank you all now for your work in this area and wish you all success in it's continuation. James... "Dr. Neville Jones" <ntj005@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: "I think it would be good if Dr Jones could SIMM this in GU 2005." Good suggestion, Allen, I'll see what we can do. Neville. Allen Daves wrote: Since the Earth is not moving in a GS model and in the HC it is moving around the sun, the only way star trails could appear in a GS model is if the whole universe was vibrating around the earth over a period of one year with a 3% elliptical and a ~150 million mile radius. But there are no star trails, which excludes the possibility of the earth moving around the sun. As Dr Jones points out, if the nightly star trails are due to a ~7000 mile circle (spin) of the earth then the 300,000,000 mile circle that the earth makes around the sun should produce annual star trails that are ~42,000 thousand times larger than the nightly ones. If the nightly star trails are due to a say ~.0000005 of a degree angle between the observer and the star and that produces a star trail that is say ~.5 inch across (in the sky)over the course of one night then over the course a year it should produce one~43,000 times that size or ~21,500 inches in dia, because the nightly circle is only ~7000 miles big in diameter, the yearly is ~300,000,000 million miles big. How could it not be there? But it is not there! If ~3500 miles (Earth?s Radius)represents .0000005 of a degree at 430lys, then the angle of the observer after moving 300,000,000 miles away would change drastically from .0000005 of one degree to ~.214 of a degree from where it was before. I?m not using trig here just REAL ROUGH numbers off the top of my head. In any case it is a big difference. I think it would be good if Dr Jones could SIMM this in GU 2005. Allen Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com