[geocentrism] Re: 666
- From: Allen Daves <allendaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
- To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 21:04:35 -0700 (PDT)
Here and inserted in your text as well in blue
Martin Selbrede <mselbrede@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On May 22, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Allen Daves wrote:
It is not the argument that they are separate (62 & 7) that needs justifying
but any argument that makes them to be counted as one
Okay, this once I'll admit to confusion, because you're saying things that
conflict with your own chart. Your chart shows all 490 years of the 70 sevens
running consecutively -- otherwise, you don't end up with a block of 490 years.
The 490 years DO run consecutively: 49+434+7. You're right that the Messiah
is cut off after the 62nd week, which means after 434 years following the 20th
year of Artaxerxes. The closer description of the seventieth week lets us know
the cutting off occurs in the middle of it, 3.5 years after the 62nd week
ended, or 437.5 years after the 20th year of Artaxerxes, which is the year
Christ was crucified. 437 years That is not even remotly possible..... would
make the " many" preist that saw the first temple who saw the latter (refer to
persin kings chart) ~154 year old at birth the first time they saw the first
temple destroyed even though scripture implies they remembered so you need ot
tack on another 10 years or so for a wopping 164 years
of age if they were only ten at the time of the first temple was destroyed as
well as push NEb first year to ~543BC........ you should realy look at my
indepth proof for the persian kings chart ther is realy not alowance by
scritpure for any ohter chronological construct.. i'll explain that more if you
need me to but it should be in the persian kings chart I think...
So, if you're trying to say the periods are NOT consecutive but have gaps
in-between them, I'd say absolutely not. they are linear and non linear time
sets And if uour comment above is calling for a justification for treating the
seventy sevens as running sequentially, end-to-end, without gaps, here's the
clincher: Hebrew uses grammatical constructions that are not allowed in
English in order to get crucial information across. This is evident in the
very opening verse of the 70 weeks prophecy. We read this in English something
like this: "Seventy weeks are determined...." but this is completely wrong.
The Hebrew is "seventy sevens IS cut off." Why "IS" rather than "ARE"?
Because time is sliced just ONCE, at the far edges of the seventy sevens, so
the singular linking verb (a Hebrew particle of speech) is applied to a plural
subject to show that they form a SINGLE UNIT. If the subdivisions were movable
and flexible, the passage would have read "seventy sevens ARE cut off." But by
using the singular linking verb, the seventy sevens are compelled to be a
single indivisible unit. This is the fatal objection that blocks the idea that
the seventieth week of Daniel was somehow postponed.
The construct I use is consistent with the Septuagint in Greek as well being
perserved in english ?.In all cases this passage can be read in various ways
but not exclusivly they attempt you make and it does not and cannot even make
any sense......only by correlating the benchmarks and treating the time sets
independintly and consistently can one arrive at a coherent understanding that
is consistent with all scripture and looking back on history. see next remarks
for further explinations.
As if God didn't know how to express Himself without us correcting His
grammar. What chutzpah! God says what He means and means what He says. The 7
weeks are followed immediately by the next 62 followed immediately by the final
week: no interruptions. I don't have to justify this any further than I just
have -- I assert that Gabriel knew what he was talking about when he delivered
this prophecy of God to the prophet Daniel. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.
The sentence might be bad English, but it's excellent Hebrew. Don't discount
Hebrew as a language: Isaiah 19:18 says that before history closes, "five
cities in the land of Egypt shall speak the language of Canaan [Hebrew]" --
it's a Biblical language with a great future, Isaiah being witness. We should
take this language VERY seriously.
should take it seriouly but it was not met to be understood untill after the
events not before them
1. It not contradictory but you asssume the text is outlining three time
sets and it is not it is outlining 4 ................70, 62, 7, and one week
are all mentioned individually by name. that is four not three sets. I show
that they are to be taken individually. Yes 62+7+1 is 70 but that has no
bearing on the layout of 4 individual time sets and benchmarks for each one.
70 weeks as one which is specifically mentioned 70 weeks also a Time
62 & 7 weeks times?.. Two separate but individually mentioned ?Times
And the middle of one week as Half a time it to is individually and
specifically mentioned.
All those can be shown to correlate the benchmarks given but only if you take
the text at face value and use all four not assume that the three are all there
is to the 70 again going back to the street and wall ?even in troublesome
times? which is a specific reference to a specific set of correlated people and
events from Herrod to AD70 ( in the days of these kings) yet the street and
wall of Nehemiah ch5 cannot be ignored for the street and wall are specific
and common to both Nehemiah as well as Daniel ch9 ?
Most people read ?troublesome times? and think that is some generic figure
of speech, it is not but that is why they miss it because they fail to define
it as the bible defines it. And the bible defines those ?troublesome times? and
puts it in specific context with the days of those kings from Herrod in
Danile ch 8,11,& 12 to the destruction of Jerusalem via Jesus in Luke 21.
?There are two occasions for the street and wall once was in the days of
Herrod ~16 years before Christ John 2: 20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six
years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? This
is not Nehemiah?s temple for scripture state that it only took 4 years to
finish (Ezra 4:24 see Persian kings chart) this 46 years in John is Herrods
improvements after the quake of ~40BC? the troublesome times the other is
Nehimiah ch 5 in 490 BC both must be accounted for. Nehimiah is common to
Daniel with the wall and ?even in troublesome times? is synonymous to Herrod
and or the days of these kings in which the kingdom would be set up. This is
how you know it is 4 times sets not just three????. For far too long ?scholars?
have missed the forest for the tree, even though the text specifically mentions
4 times sets they assumed three even though in the same format as the other
narratives that discuss some of the same events namely
TIME = 70 weeks
TIMES = 62 & 7 weeks
& HALF A TIME = middle of one week
? I have demonstrated that fact time and again remember the same place that
discuses time times and half a time also have common elements with each other
and with the 70 weeks namely Destruction of Jerusalem/ trampling of the city
by the gentiles for 42 months and the woman fleeing to her place in the
wilderness for 42 moths or 1260 days. The problem is most ?scholars? are so
indoctrinated with interpretations they cant see what the text plainly states
or correlates itself to..
. Lets take this slow I want to make sure everyone understands what I am
saying?.about the 4 times sets not three and that fact being brought out by the
street and wall of Nehemiah and the ?even in troublesome times? of Herrods day
see charts on danile ch 8 11& 12 parallel?scripture only outlines ones
?troublesome times? and it is correlated to a specific set of people and events?
2.The construct of the 62 & 7 is not nor can be demonstrated consistantly as
to be counted together. Sure you can read the text that way but the text is
structured so such that it is not exclusive to that reading (The 62 & 7 as one
set to be counted togehter and is thus an assumton to take that imparitive)
..62 messiah cut off 7 weeks street and wall even in "troublesome times" the
construct is as follows
A 70 weeks for your people your city; put end to sin; finish the
transgression; seal up vision and prophecy; anoint the Most Holy
B.Going fourth of the command to rebuild and restore Jerusalem until messiah
the prince
C. 7 weeks (mentioned 1st) and 62 weeks (mentioned 2nd)
D The street and the wall built "even in trouble some times" we can know
only looking back that took place on tow separate occasions and recored for us
in scripture (mentioned 1st) 7 weeks corresponds to the street and wall which
correspond to rebuilding and restoring Jerusalem. Even in troublesome times
indicates more then just once.
E After 62 weeks the messiah will be cut off (mentioned 2nd) 62 weeks and
cut off directly and specifically correspond
F In the midst of a week corresponding to putting a end to sacrifice and
offering see below for detailed examination.
It is following a 1,2, 1,2 pattern the ?even in troublesome times? tells you
more then one occasion and with the street and wall of Nehemiah tell you what
to correlate it to Nemmiah ch 5 and ?Herrods day? only the 70 weeks or 490
years could only correspond to Nehemiah?s for all the chronological reasons I
gave before. It is important to note that this was not meant to be understood
till after the events took place it is difficult reading in any case but not
impossible there is s subtle pattern and correlations that could only be made
after the events took place that make it understandable.
Allen
Martin
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