[geocentrism] Re: 666

  • From: "philip madsen" <pma15027@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • To: "geocentrism list" <geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:16:38 +1000

Martin said:  You're doing the count on the assumption there is a Year Zero

Allen is not alone on that one Martin.. 99.999% of the whole world including 
Mainstream science had that assumption which was the cause of them 
miscalculating and celebrating in the New Millenium a year early.

I was ashamed of Mainstreem science that year.. Mainly because they just could 
not understand the correction a few of us around the world were trying to tell 

I might mention here that the two main observatories of Greenwich and the Naval 
Equivalent (name escapes) in the US, both acknowledged the truth, but refused 
to do anything active about it. 

Was it a mistake, or a cold blooded lie? But for what purpose. 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Martin Selbrede 
  To: geocentrism@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 2:56 PM
  Subject: [geocentrism] Re: 666

  On May 21, 2007, at 6:44 PM, Allen Daves wrote:

    Me in blue

    You astound me on the one hand with your eloquence and on the other you 
"gift" for your lack of understanding and missing any and all verbatim 
correlation(s) "Trample via gentiles" "the city"within the relevant text as 
well as the context as a whole itself....you seem to piecemeal Revelation 
Daniel and Jesus as all separate not related topics and text in sipte of their 
specific referenced staments ...see previous?

  The mistake is straightforward. Your count is wrong (for several reasons), 
because the span of time from 596 BC to 70 AD is not 666 years, but 665 years.  
You're doing the count on the assumption there is a Year Zero.  I made this 
clear, transparent, and gave TWO examples of how this is to be correctly 
counted, and even SAID that the 666 year count is wrong, and you still missed 
it.  I can't help you if you don't pay attention to what I'm communicating.

  The other reason the count is wrong is because you have the wrong start point 
for the beginning of the 70 weeks prophecy. It begins with Nehemiah's prayer to 
God, offered in the month of Kislev, the third month of the civil year, in the 
twentieth year of Artaxerxes (455 BC).  The references to the rebuilding 
occurring in Ezra are baseless (as if the decree emanated from the 7th year of 
Artaxerxes, or from Cyrus, which hypotheses fall apart under scrutiny). The 
483rd year of the 490 in the set begins at the outset of Christ's public 
ministry, the middle of the 70th week occurs when Christ is crucified and cut 
off, the remainder of the 70th week terminates at the stoning of Stephen. In 
other words, the 490 years overlaps the 70 years, and this circumstance is 
fatal to the consecutive treatment they receive in the Powerpoint slides.

  Briefly, your 596+70=666 count is wrong because you need to subtract one year 
for crossing the BC-AD divide because there's no discretization at that 
threshold, and even if you hadn't made that mistake, you're off by more than 
three decades by failing to pinpoint the correct terminus a quo for the 
beginning of Daniel's prophecy concerning the rebuilding of the wall. Ezra was 
only allowed to work on the temple -- he had religious freedom there to 
rebuild, but no civil authority to raise up the defenses of Jerusalem, for 
which reason the city remained a reproach. I won't go into detail here with the 
scriptural proofs for this position, and the refutation of alleged 
counter-passages in Ezra, Haggai, and Isaiah, but I'm ready to bring them into 
the open if your response indicates this is needful. But I'm very, very 
well-armed on this, scripturally.

  So, when you write that "Year zero has nothing to do with those 
calculations...."  you're mistaken. You should have verified this first before 
reaffirming the same mistake a second time. Had you sat down with paper and 
pencil and just looked at what you were doing, you'd have seen the problem 
right away.  You merely assumed you were right, and I was wrong. Such 
assumptions can come back to bite one, especially after you charge me thus: 
"you did not read very carefully."  It takes more than a blunderbuss approach 
to be a workman approved, not ashamed. 

  Nobody, and I repeat, nobody, is a master of Scripture unless they've first 
been mastered BY the Scripture. You play so fast and loose with verses, it 
truly shocks me to see so much boundless zeal put behind such feebly-supported 
speculations, at the expense of the straightforward expositions and exegeses of 
the passages. You downplay the "jots and tittles" in order to impose 
preconceived ideas about context. You merely assume that (1) your take on the 
context is correct and that (2) its bearing on Rev. 13:18 is determinative.  
Assertion is not proof.  What's particularly annoying is that I, too, have made 
an appeal to context within Revelation, and you've dismissed it without a 
second thought. But you charge ME thus: "you don't even grasp the context of 
what is going on and you want to understand it how?"  Having taught 
verse-by-verse through Revelation as early as 1981 at the seminary level, I 
know something about the context of what is going on. For that reason, I have 
very little sympathy for the vast majority of popular "thinking" on the topic. 
Too many of these folks need to go back and do a little homework before going 
to press prematurely. 

  On the positive side, if (as I think you're saying) you're teaching that God 
set up His kingdom prior to 70 AD, I would be in hearty agreement with this 
view. That would be the correct take on the final parts of Daniel 2, that 
during the ancient Roman Empire God would set up His kingdom, one that would 
never be shaken. If this is your view (and it seems to be the case, based on 
your slide presentation), you'd be in sharp disagreement with much of 
evangelical Christendom, but you'd nonetheless be correct. The setting up of 
that kingdom doesn't await some future event: it occurred twenty centuries ago, 
and the demolition of the Roman Empire is proof of it (the stone cut without 
hands strikes the statue, and it becomes like the chaff of the summer threshing 
floors and was driven away by the wind).  If I've misunderstood you, and you 
don't think God set up a kingdom of any kind at that point, we'd again be on 
opposite ends of an issue.  Which tends to be a prevailing situation. As 
Neville says, there's surely plenty of diversity on this forum.



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