If you guys haven't heard, Carmack wrote a bit about mobile Java for phone games. http://www.armadilloaerospace.com/n.x/johnc/Recent%20Updates So much for my assertion that Carmack would never program in Java. ;) To be fair, that assertion was in reference to "next generation" PC engines/games. It's a pretty good read. Seems like in a lot of ways the phone games market has brought us back to the "good old days" where game design and gameplay overshadowed graphics and special effects. Simply because, you can't do that much on the platform yet (and if you believe Carmack, Java makes it that much more challenging). The problem is, I think we're already too spoiled-- interface wise if not graphics wise. That and we already have portable game platforms in the Gameboy, and now PSP, which will overshadow anything that the general phone games will be able to do for quite some time. --------------------- To unsubscribe go to http://gameprogrammer.com/mailinglist.html