We are not declaring.
We are saying the decision to retreat into the city is at the end of
_all _moment.
If I am wrong Makis, please correct me.
On 2018-03-06 7:22 PM, Yannis Sykamias wrote:
What is the purpose of using implicit garrisons since we now declaring the position of a corps (inside or outside the city)?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Tiron <strategija@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 8:07:50 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
1. If enemy corps is outside your city you cannot place reinforcements inside (because we are playing implicit garrisons).
2. Once you declare the corps inside the city it will stay inside until your turn again.
3. Once a corps is specifically declared to be inside the city it becomes city garrison. And city garrisons cannot reinforce.
I do not think this will be an issue in the game, try to think a number of situations you would declare a corps to be inside the city and then try to further imagine a battle nearby you want to reinforce.
On 2018-03-06 6:22 PM, eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I cannot find anything related to inside-outside restrictions. Unless we use the implicit garrison rule which assumes cities and areas are two separate entities (and we don't), I think that loading can happen in either case but Corps cannot reinforce if inside the city, since on this instance they will be considered as "garrison" entities not as corps in an area.
What do the rest of you think
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
/So a reinforcement to an adjacent area is not allowed, according
to my understanding, in this case/
You mean a battle reinforcement now, not a factors/corps
reinforcement yes? I am not certain, I have to look this up to be
honest. Also I have to look up whether a corps that was not
declared inside a city during a previous turn, can be loaded into
fleets next turn in the naval phase.
this will be funny.
if i have got it right, unless in a battle with a relieving
force, a city garrison doesn't take part in any other battle in
the same area, right? would be interesting being able to
reinforce in an adjacent area!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of Yannis
Sykamias <ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 18:34
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
Correct, on the third point I refer to battle reinforcement.
Ok, let’s try to have a round table to summarize the impact this
change has in our gameplay in order to avoid any issues on its
implementation going forward!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 6:29:37 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
/So unless declared inside the city then for example during a
reinforcement phase an ungarrisoned city that is not occupied by
an enemy corps may be “normally” reinforced with forces of the
province owner, correct? /
If your own corps is outside the city yes. If the corps outside
is not yours and belongs to the enemy, then you cannot reinforce
this city, even if did not specifically mentioned he is "in the city"
/Also, if the corps is declared inside the city then the corps
will be considered in this status until the player controlling
the corps becomes the phasing player, correct?/
/
/
Correct.
/
/
/So a reinforcement to an adjacent area is not allowed, according
to my understanding, in this case/
You mean a battle reinforcement now, not a factors/corps
reinforcement yes? I am not certain, I have to look this up to be
honest. Also I have to look up whether a corps that was not
declared inside a city during a previous turn, can be loaded into
fleets next turn in the naval phase.
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Yannis Sykamias
<ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
So unless declared inside the city then for example during a
reinforcement phase an ungarrisoned city that is not occupied
by an enemy corps may be “normally” reinforced with forces of
the province owner, correct?
Also, if the corps is declared inside the city then the corps
will be considered in this status until the player
controlling the corps becomes the phasing player, correct?
So a reinforcement to an adjacent area is not allowed,
according to my understanding, in this case?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> on behalf of Dimitris
Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 6:07:18 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
it was clear about ending movement.
now it is clear inside/outside too
thanks
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 18:05
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
/ then shouldn't be asked if stay and fight or retire into
the city? /
Absolutely. But then France (or the phasing player whoever he
might be) does not get to continue movement. Although no
battle took place, the phasing player stops moving and can
only siege.
This is why i said for simplicity reasons we assume all corps
are outside, there will be few cases when the defender will
not want to stay outside from the start, since he gets the
option to retire later anyway.
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Dimitris Stavr.
<poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
*all corps are assumed to be _outside_ of a city*
please help me with the following exam
a prussian corps ends movement in an area with a city,
then according to the top line it is considered outside.
assuming that france plays after prussia, a french corps
enters the same area. then shouldn't be asked if stay and
fight or retire into the city?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 17:54
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
This issue has ended, everyone had time enough to vote.
Please note that we now have a new process for battles
initiation:
All corps are either inside, or outside of the city. This
decision is taken at the end of our movement phase. We
will no longer be asked where the corps are
during opponent turns, but on the other hand, the
attacker no longer has an option to continue movement
when entering a province with a hostile corps and the
defender decides to retire behind the city walls.
For simplicity, *all corps are assumed to be _outside_ of
a city, unless specifically mentioned otherwise*.
This rule is in effect as of this turn.
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Makis Xiroyannis
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
still voting, 3 to 2 for Tiron's/manual view. One
more day of voting, otherwise we play as Tiron suggests
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Dimitris Stavr.
<poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
if still voting, i agree with Tiron's view
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
*Sent:* Saturday, March 3, 2018 20:02
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
I don't see the above conflicting with what we
played, considering the decision of where a corps
is, is taken during movement. But I will not
argue any more on it, perhaps it seems natural to
me only because I have been playing it like this.
Votes are only 2 on 2, so it can go either way.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 7:47 PM,
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
No, the manual is
A) You complete all movement
B) Enemy decides if he wants to fight or move
into city
If enemy decided to move into the city THERE
IS NO MORE MOVEMENT. You can not continue
moving any corps at all.
On Mar 3, 2018 18:38,
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
what you mean for the manual? The choices
basically are
*_A._* Is the exact location of any corps
in an area (inside or outside a city)
decided when someone ends his movement
phase? (so he announces whether corps are
in or outside the city at that time)
OR
_*B.*_ The exact location of the corps in
an area (inside or outside a city) is
announced as soon as any enemy enters.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Laertes
Papaspyrou <bitoulis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:bitoulis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
I vote for the manual. It’s clear
On 3 Mar 2018, at 16:55,
eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Its not a house rule really, to be
honest in every group i played
(except with you) it was interpreted
like that, and I simply picked it up.
Off course if you don't expect it you
are always allowed to reply it, that
bit at least we allow it in this group.
If you don't like it feel free to
vote against it, maybe others don't
like it too.
On 3 Mar 2018 3:56 pm,
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
In general I have no problems
with house rules or
interpretations but for someone
who was not here at the begining
it is impossible for me to know
them all.
I plan my turns based on rules
and if a house rule is different
from what I am playing I am
making a mistake in my turn,
without knowing, putting my
navies and armies in danger.
I have no objections to the house
rule.
On Mar 3, 2018 11:10 AM, "Makis
Xiroyannis"
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
Hello all,
while we are waiting for
Turkey/Prussia clean up files
and Political phase, I bring
back this discussion raised
by Tiron since the turn is
starting again now and we can
decide on it if you wish.
Rules *7.5.1* and *7.5.1.1.*
are correct, as Tiron
interprets them in the first
letter of this chain. We have
been playing like this indeed.
Rules *7.3.2.1* and *7.3.6.2*
are also correct as mentioned
by Laertis, but we are not
only doing that while playing
depot garrisons.
The missing piece of the
rules that we need, is
*7.3.7.1. *To explain:
*7.3.7.1* ENEMY CORPS OR CITY
GARRISON IN AREA: If during
movement a corps moves into
an area containing enemy
corps not in a city, the
corps must cease movement and
declare an attack. If enemy corps
and/or garrison factors are
in a city *the phasing corps
_may_ continue movement or
stop movement and besiege*
(see 7.5.4) *or not, as the
owning player desires.*
The trick here is *when* this
decision - whether the corps
is inside the city or outside
- is performed. In the
explicit garrison rules we
play with the other group
with Tiron, it is always
clear what is in and what is
outside. But for our games,
*we decided that this
decision will be taken by the
defending player the moment a
hostile corps enters its
area*. We did this for 2
reasons:
1. Less bookkeeping
(otherwise we should note for
every corps on the map
whether it is inside, or
outside of a city at every time)
2. More tactical flexibility
(allowing the defending
player to make a decision
during an opponents turn)
For me it is also slightly
more realistic, given that
corps always knew an enemy
was coming due to scouts, and
when placed in an area they
had the privelege to chose a
location close to fortified
cities in case they needed to
fall back. In any case this
is something the rules allow.
Personally I am in favour of
continuing to play like this,
ie the decision of where the
corps is (inside/outside) to
be taken during hostile
movement. I am not strongly
in favour, I simply think it
gives a bit more flexibility.
You can all vote and decide
on it.
M.
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:46
PM, Tiron
<strategija@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:strategija@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
I fully agree that we
should not alter rules
mid turn, actuality I
think we should not
change the rules of the
game at all or as least
as possible. We play any
game, from chess to EiA,
because we start with the
same set of rules on both
sides, we have the same
understanding how the
game can be played.
Having said that I am
also fine if the group
has it's own set of house
rules or interpretations,
but I also think as a
"relatively" I can not be
expected to know them. I
made game decisions based
on the rules as I can
read them.
With Makis agreement I
will change part of
British naval turn to
move the fleet at Channel
crossing to London and 2
British fleets blocking
french port into Channel
Crossing.
On 2018-02-14 19:18,
Makis Xiroyannis wrote:
Tiron feel free to
change your naval where
you think it is affected
by this rule
Just arrived home and
can have 1 hour or so
wife-free, could we play
on a bit the western
battles so that we
proceed with the turn? I
am not normally in a
hurry, but given that I
will be packing tommorow
evening, and traveling
for 4 days, things will
slow down
Turkish turn should not
affect the west
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at
8:14 PM, Makis
Xiroyannis
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
Like Yannis, I also
remember many cases,
and more importantly
remember cases were
we LOST corps
(instead of
retreating into the
city) so that the
opponent cannot move
further. I have lost
several corps this
way, and the
centrals too.
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018
at 8:08 PM, Yannis
Sykamias
<ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
I can certainly
recall cases
from our first
war with France
where we applied
this for corps
thus allowing
the attacker to
continue its move.
I agree with
Makis, it is not
proper to apply
any change in
the middle of a
turn so we may
proceed the turn
while discussing
on what is the
proper way to
implement this
action.
_____________________________
From: Laertes
Papaspyrou
<bitoulis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:bitoulis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Sent: Wednesday,
February 14,
2018 19:52
Subject:
[eiagreek] Re:
Something about
rules
To:
<eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
Regarding the
rule under
discussion, we
play it as such
for depot
garrisons. Not
sure about corps.
I found the
below rules :
7.3.2.1
<http://7.3.2.1>:
A corps must
cease movement
when it consumes
its movement
allowance or
when it enters
an area
containing an
unbesieged enemy
corps
(not if the area
contains only
cossacks,
freikorps,
guerrillas and/or
garrisons).
7.3.6.2
GARRISONED DEPOT
AREA: If an
enemy depot is
garrisoned, the
player
controlling the
garrison factors
has the option
of immediately
destroying the
depot before the
moving force
chooses whether
to leave the
area (if
permissible) or
to stay and
ght. If the
garrison does
not elect to
destroy the
depot and the
phasing force
chooses to stop
its movement and
ght, the depot
may be captured
after land
combat (see
7.3.6.1) and
destroyed or
converted (but
not used for
supply this
major power's
sequence-also
see 7.5.2.14).
If the garrison
destroys the
depot, the garrison
surrenders or
all or part (if
city cannot hold
all-the part not
moved to the
city will
surrender) can
be moved to an
unbesieged
friendly
controlled or
vacant city in
that same area,
at the owning
player's option.
So it seems you
only get he
option to
continue moving
when facing a
depot garrison.
I think this how
we have been
playing by now.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Makis
Xiroyannis
<makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>>
*To:*
eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:*
Wednesday, 14
February 2018, 19:46
*Subject:*
[eiagreek] Re:
Something about
rules
I don't have
the rules in
front of me but
this is how we
have been
playing it yes.
I suggest we do
not change it
mid move even if
you are correct.
I would also
suggest that you
change the part
of your naval
move that was
jeopardised due
to playing
differently.
'Re Turkey, I
had hoped he
would have
posted so that
you have an
overall view of
things, but
something is
probably holding
him up, so I
would suggest we
continue with
the Western
front were
Turkish actions
are not very
relevant.
On 14 Feb 2018
6:59 pm, "Tiron"
<strategija@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:strategija@xxxxxxxxx>>
wrote:
During
discussions
with my
allies it
turned out
that the
group has
played
before in
one why I
find unusual
and it
certainly
compromises
part of my
naval move.
I am told
the corps
can continue
movement
after
initial
battle is
declared but
defender
retreats
into city.
I would like
to note the
rules here:
*7.5.1
GENERAL
RULES OF
LAND
COMBAT:* If
_at the end
of all
movement of
the phasing
major
power_,
enemy forces
(excluding
guerillas-see
10.1.1.3)
occupy the
same area as
its corps,
freikorps or
cossacks,
the phasing
major power
must attack
in those
areas (also
see 7.3.7
and 7.3.8).
*7.5.1.1
DEFENDER
RETIREMENT
INTO CITY:*
Any forces
or portion
of forces
upon whom an
attack is
declared may
immediately
retire into
any friendly
controlled
or vacant,
and
unbesieged
city in that
area but not
so as to
exceed that
city's
garrison
capacity.
7.5.1 is
clear, you
complete
your
movement and
anywhere you
enter enemy
area and say
Attack!
7.5.1.1.
says after
you said
Attack!
defender can
retreat into
city .
So the
sequence
should be
like this
Movement ->
Attack ->
Retreat into
city
I do not see
where is
says after
retreating
into city
you go back
to step 1.
On a side
note, are we
waiting for
Turkish turn
or we
proceed with
French battles?
