it was my impression we need to declare where the corps is.
But I agree that Tiron's way of thinking sounds easier: We always assume
the corps is outside, and only when someone enter the area we give it the
option to retreat inside. That should do fine.
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 9:32 PM, Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
that was also my impression and agreed with Tiron.
what is the point to declare where it is if at the end of all movement i
can say if it is out and fight, or retires in and doesn't fight?
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of Tiron <strategija@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 20:43
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
We are not declaring.
We are saying the decision to retreat into the city is at the end of *all
* moment.
If I am wrong Makis, please correct me.
On 2018-03-06 7:22 PM, Yannis Sykamias wrote:
What is the purpose of using implicit garrisons since we now declaring the
position of a corps (inside or outside the city)?
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
<eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on behalf of Tiron <strategija@xxxxxxxxx>
<strategija@xxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 8:07:50 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
1. If enemy corps is outside your city you cannot place reinforcements
inside (because we are playing implicit garrisons).
2. Once you declare the corps inside the city it will stay inside until
your turn again.
3. Once a corps is specifically declared to be inside the city it becomes
city garrison. And city garrisons cannot reinforce.
I do not think this will be an issue in the game, try to think a number of
situations you would declare a corps to be inside the city and then try to
further imagine a battle nearby you want to reinforce.
On 2018-03-06 6:22 PM, eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
I cannot find anything related to inside-outside restrictions. Unless we
use the implicit garrison rule which assumes cities and areas are two
separate entities (and we don't), I think that loading can happen in either
case but Corps cannot reinforce if inside the city, since on this instance
they will be considered as "garrison" entities not as corps in an area.
What do the rest of you think
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 7:03 PM, Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
*So a reinforcement to an adjacent area is not allowed, according to my
understanding, in this case*
You mean a battle reinforcement now, not a factors/corps reinforcement
yes? I am not certain, I have to look this up to be honest. Also I have to
look up whether a corps that was not declared inside a city during a
previous turn, can be loaded into fleets next turn in the naval phase.
this will be funny.
if i have got it right, unless in a battle with a relieving force, a city
garrison doesn't take part in any other battle in the same area, right?
would be interesting being able to reinforce in an adjacent area!
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of Yannis Sykamias <ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 18:34
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx; eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
Correct, on the third point I refer to battle reinforcement.
Ok, let’s try to have a round table to summarize the impact this change
has in our gameplay in order to avoid any issues on its implementation
going forward!
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 6:29:37 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
*So unless declared inside the city then for example during a
reinforcement phase an ungarrisoned city that is not occupied by an enemy
corps may be “normally” reinforced with forces of the province owner,
correct? *
If your own corps is outside the city yes. If the corps outside is not
yours and belongs to the enemy, then you cannot reinforce this city, even
if did not specifically mentioned he is "in the city"
*Also, if the corps is declared inside the city then the corps will be
considered in this status until the player controlling the corps becomes
the phasing player, correct?*
Correct.
*So a reinforcement to an adjacent area is not allowed, according to my
understanding, in this case*
You mean a battle reinforcement now, not a factors/corps reinforcement
yes? I am not certain, I have to look this up to be honest. Also I have to
look up whether a corps that was not declared inside a city during a
previous turn, can be loaded into fleets next turn in the naval phase.
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:17 PM, Yannis Sykamias <ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
So unless declared inside the city then for example during a reinforcement
phase an ungarrisoned city that is not occupied by an enemy corps may be
“normally” reinforced with forces of the province owner, correct?
Also, if the corps is declared inside the city then the corps will be
considered in this status until the player controlling the corps becomes
the phasing player, correct?
So a reinforcement to an adjacent area is not allowed, according to my
understanding, in this case?
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> on
behalf of Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 6:07:18 PM
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
it was clear about ending movement.
now it is clear inside/outside too
thanks
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 18:05
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
* then shouldn't be asked if stay and fight or retire into the city? *
Absolutely. But then France (or the phasing player whoever he might be)
does not get to continue movement. Although no battle took place, the
phasing player stops moving and can only siege.
This is why i said for simplicity reasons we assume all corps are outside,
there will be few cases when the defender will not want to stay outside
from the start, since he gets the option to retire later anyway.
On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
*all corps are assumed to be outside of a city*
please help me with the following exam
a prussian corps ends movement in an area with a city, then according to
the top line it is considered outside.
assuming that france plays after prussia, a french corps enters the same
area. then shouldn't be asked if stay and fight or retire into the city?
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Tuesday, March 6, 2018 17:54
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
This issue has ended, everyone had time enough to vote. Please note that
we now have a new process for battles initiation:
All corps are either inside, or outside of the city. This decision is
taken at the end of our movement phase. We will no longer be asked where
the corps are during opponent turns, but on the other hand, the attacker no
longer has an option to continue movement when entering a province with a
hostile corps and the defender decides to retire behind the city walls.
For simplicity, *all corps are assumed to be outside of a city, unless
specifically mentioned otherwise*.
This rule is in effect as of this turn.
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:32 PM, Makis Xiroyannis <
makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
still voting, 3 to 2 for Tiron's/manual view. One more day of voting,
otherwise we play as Tiron suggests
On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 10:27 PM, Dimitris Stavr. <poliorkitis@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
if still voting, i agree with Tiron's view
------------------------------
*From:* eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
*Sent:* Saturday, March 3, 2018 20:02
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
I don't see the above conflicting with what we played, considering the
decision of where a corps is, is taken during movement. But I will not
argue any more on it, perhaps it seems natural to me only because I have
been playing it like this.
Votes are only 2 on 2, so it can go either way.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 7:47 PM, <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
No, the manual is
A) You complete all movement
B) Enemy decides if he wants to fight or move into city
If enemy decided to move into the city THERE IS NO MORE MOVEMENT. You can
not continue moving any corps at all.
On Mar 3, 2018 18:38, <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
what you mean for the manual? The choices basically are
*A.* Is the exact location of any corps in an area (inside or outside a
city) decided when someone ends his movement phase? (so he announces
whether corps are in or outside the city at that time)
OR
*B.* The exact location of the corps in an area (inside or outside a
city) is announced as soon as any enemy enters.
On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 6:09 PM, Laertes Papaspyrou <
bitoulis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I vote for the manual. It’s clear
On 3 Mar 2018, at 16:55, eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Its not a house rule really, to be honest in every group i played (except
with you) it was interpreted like that, and I simply picked it up. Off
course if you don't expect it you are always allowed to reply it, that bit
at least we allow it in this group.
If you don't like it feel free to vote against it, maybe others don't like
it too.
On 3 Mar 2018 3:56 pm, <eiagreek-bounce@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
In general I have no problems with house rules or interpretations but for
someone who was not here at the begining it is impossible for me to know
them all.
I plan my turns based on rules and if a house rule is different from what
I am playing I am making a mistake in my turn, without knowing, putting my
navies and armies in danger.
I have no objections to the house rule.
On Mar 3, 2018 11:10 AM, "Makis Xiroyannis" <makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
Hello all,
while we are waiting for Turkey/Prussia clean up files and Political
phase, I bring back this discussion raised by Tiron since the turn is
starting again now and we can decide on it if you wish.
Rules *7.5.1* and *7.5.1.1.* are correct, as Tiron interprets them in the
first letter of this chain. We have been playing like this indeed.
Rules *7.3.2.1* and *7.3.6.2* are also correct as mentioned by Laertis,
but we are not only doing that while playing depot garrisons.
The missing piece of the rules that we need, is *7.3.7.1. *To explain:
*7.3.7.1* ENEMY CORPS OR CITY GARRISON IN AREA: If during movement a
corps moves into an area containing enemy corps not in a city, the corps
must cease movement and declare an attack. If enemy corps
and/or garrison factors are in a city *the phasing corps may continue
movement or stop movement and besiege* (see 7.5.4) *or not, as the owning
player desires.*
The trick here is *when* this decision - whether the corps is inside the
city or outside - is performed. In the explicit garrison rules we play with
the other group with Tiron, it is always clear what is in and what is
outside. But for our games, *we decided that this decision will be taken
by the defending player the moment a hostile corps enters its area*. We
did this for 2 reasons:
1. Less bookkeeping (otherwise we should note for every corps on the map
whether it is inside, or outside of a city at every time)
2. More tactical flexibility (allowing the defending player to make a
decision during an opponents turn)
For me it is also slightly more realistic, given that corps always knew an
enemy was coming due to scouts, and when placed in an area they had the
privelege to chose a location close to fortified cities in case they needed
to fall back. In any case this is something the rules allow.
Personally I am in favour of continuing to play like this, ie the decision
of where the corps is (inside/outside) to be taken during hostile movement.
I am not strongly in favour, I simply think it gives a bit more
flexibility. You can all vote and decide on it.
M.
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 10:46 PM, Tiron <strategija@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I fully agree that we should not alter rules mid turn, actuality I think
we should not change the rules of the game at all or as least as possible.
We play any game, from chess to EiA, because we start with the same set of
rules on both sides, we have the same understanding how the game can be
played.
Having said that I am also fine if the group has it's own set of house
rules or interpretations, but I also think as a "relatively" I can not be
expected to know them. I made game decisions based on the rules as I can
read them.
With Makis agreement I will change part of British naval turn to move the
fleet at Channel crossing to London and 2 British fleets blocking french
port into Channel Crossing.
On 2018-02-14 19:18, Makis Xiroyannis wrote:
Tiron feel free to change your naval where you think it is affected by
this rule
Just arrived home and can have 1 hour or so wife-free, could we play on a
bit the western battles so that we proceed with the turn? I am not normally
in a hurry, but given that I will be packing tommorow evening, and
traveling for 4 days, things will slow down
Turkish turn should not affect the west
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:14 PM, Makis Xiroyannis <
makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Like Yannis, I also remember many cases, and more importantly remember
cases were we LOST corps (instead of retreating into the city) so that the
opponent cannot move further. I have lost several corps this way, and the
centrals too.
On Wed, Feb 14, 2018 at 8:08 PM, Yannis Sykamias <ysykamias@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
I can certainly recall cases from our first war with France where we
applied this for corps thus allowing the attacker to continue its move.
I agree with Makis, it is not proper to apply any change in the middle of
a turn so we may proceed the turn while discussing on what is the proper
way to implement this action.
_____________________________
From: Laertes Papaspyrou <bitoulis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 19:52
Subject: [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
To: <eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Regarding the rule under discussion, we play it as such for depot
garrisons. Not sure about corps.
I found the below rules :
7.3.2.1: A corps must cease movement when it consumes its movement
allowance or when it enters an area containing an unbesieged enemy corps
(not if the area contains only cossacks, freikorps, guerrillas and/or
garrisons).
7.3.6.2 GARRISONED DEPOT AREA: If an enemy depot is garrisoned, the
player controlling the garrison factors has the option of immediately
destroying the depot before the moving force chooses whether to leave the
area (if permissible) or to stay and ght. If the garrison does not elect
to
destroy the depot and the phasing force chooses to stop its movement and
ght, the depot may be captured after land combat (see 7.3.6.1) and
destroyed or converted (but not used for supply this major power's
sequence-also see 7.5.2.14). If the garrison destroys the depot, the
garrison
surrenders or all or part (if city cannot hold all-the part not moved to
the
city will surrender) can be moved to an unbesieged friendly controlled or
vacant city in that same area, at the owning player's option.
So it seems you only get he option to continue moving when facing a depot
garrison. I think this how we have been playing by now.
------------------------------
*From:* Makis Xiroyannis <makis.xiroyannis@xxxxxxxxx>
*To:* eiagreek@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
*Sent:* Wednesday, 14 February 2018, 19:46
*Subject:* [eiagreek] Re: Something about rules
I don't have the rules in front of me but this is how we have been
playing it yes. I suggest we do not change it mid move even if you are
correct. I would also suggest that you change the part of your naval move
that was jeopardised due to playing differently.
'Re Turkey, I had hoped he would have posted so that you have an overall
view of things, but something is probably holding him up, so I would
suggest we continue with the Western front were Turkish actions are not
very relevant.
On 14 Feb 2018 6:59 pm, "Tiron" <strategija@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
During discussions with my allies it turned out that the group has played
before in one why I find unusual and it certainly compromises part of my
naval move.
I am told the corps can continue movement after initial battle is declared
but defender retreats into city.
I would like to note the rules here:
*7.5.1 GENERAL RULES OF LAND COMBAT:* If *at the end of all movement of
the phasing major power*, enemy forces (excluding guerillas-see 10.1.1.3)
occupy the same area as its corps, freikorps or cossacks, the phasing major
power must attack in those areas (also see 7.3.7 and 7.3.8).
*7.5.1.1 DEFENDER RETIREMENT INTO CITY:* Any forces or portion of forces
upon whom an attack is declared may immediately retire into any friendly
controlled or vacant, and unbesieged city in that area but not so as to
exceed that city's garrison capacity.
7.5.1 is clear, you complete your movement and anywhere you enter enemy
area and say Attack!
7.5.1.1. says after you said Attack! defender can retreat into city .
So the sequence should be like this
Movement -> Attack -> Retreat into city
I do not see where is says after retreating into city you go back to step
1.
On a side note, are we waiting for Turkish turn or we proceed with French
battles?
