In a message dated 1/24/2006 11:04:40 PM Pacific Standard Time, ecartis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx writes: > I had a set of brass overcheck loops from a vintage buggy bridle and tried > them on the wheeler's bridle. As these loops fastened to the throatlatch > strap with just a conway buckle I found they would twist and stay twisted > with any major rein move. We're still experimenting but seem to like those > welded rings the best. Sorry Hardy!! > I think your problem probably stems from the way you attached the loops and / or the way the rings were. Just try two large keyrings (2" diameter) use a piece of bailing twine, and if you want to go one step further, use a second piece of bailing twine and tie that from the lower part of the Rogerring to the outsiderear of the noseband. Don't make it tight, keep it with some lose play, but it just assures that the Rogerring won't flip over the head when the horse shackes his head. But don't take my word for it, just take a look at Four-in-hand pictures from the top CDE drivers. You won't see any using the welded rings. There must be a reason for it :-). (But they don't use bailing twine either, they use proper Rogerrings with a short leather strap to buckle them into the throatlatch buckle. And of course with a leather strap, it can't get twisted either) And - as usual - great posts from Kathy Robertson and Camptown Dave. I fully agree with everything in there. Good advice. (Just one small part in Dave's post was a typo, when he said, what harness you need, he didn't mean two pair harnesses, he meant two single harnesses) . Hardy