Hi all, more of the second thread... Trans-<<< If we focus on crafting the 'dance' within dance & perf-tech is that developing dance-tech or expanding post-modern/contemporary dance?>> It should be both, if the crafting itself is not perfunctory (although focus may be on either side). Trans.<<At the time of writing we are unaware of a dance-tech work in which movement and software/system creation (live coding/hacking) occur at the same time. Yet a fully integrated dance & perf-tech improvisation work should and would require this. We do not consider real-time manipulation of variables (e.g. unstable landscapes, marlon barrios-solano) to fall under this category.>> Johan.<brilliant point. (Yet), i think it is happening, i saw it this summer in the Walhalla rehearsals, and i see it in other collaborative design projects, but software writing and filming and choreographing cannot not just happen at the same time, there are durational issues (development), and especially also for the dancers writing / composing / editing with the interface as they are being designed (i want to include also the designers of the garments and the environments in which the responsive emergences happen).> Now if I understand correctly the issue raised by transsubstatiation regarding real time coding during the improvisation, do you expect this to happen in the performance itself - you speak of live coding? I have only had to do so in case of emergency, otherwise I think that generaly it is not too recommended to touch the programming whilst it is functioning in the performance, so the actual systems make it rather difficult to do something like that. Is that what you mean? Otherwise regarding feedback between software production and choreographing for the last three years i am involved in the development of an ongoing performance and installation project (mophogenesis and thresholds) in which i try to address the issue of feedbac between the creation of the instrument and the creation of the languages (visual, musical, movement, iteraction languages). Both transubstatiation and Johannes are right: there needs to be total integration of the processes but at the same time it is not quite possible, or feasible because of the specificity of each discipline. I guess it is possible to a certain extent. To me there is a fundamental feedback between the development of the system and the experimentation via improvisation, and how this experimentation sediments in an eventual choreography, or even a choreographic language, as well as how it sediments into a more articulate form of the system/software/hardware. (Not that I have quite managed to create such a totally trans-space of work-reserach, but since now I am more into programming myself (with Max and not too much in depth so far) I have the possibility to do this more flexibly, without having to coordinate complex teams etc.) We do talk sometimes about how the interactive environments affect proprioception in a broad sense, in which case I assume that there is a potential for discovering new kinds of movement and body awarenes, of body language. If we want to explore this potential in depth I assume that the construction of the instrument is essential in the process, and I remind you of the fact that I consider the intrument to be not just the software and hardware, but also the dancer's body, the space he/she moves in etc. It is more about the feedback between different aspects of the instrument (again avoiding our old dichotomy between dance and technology) and see it as aspects of the same process, only then I assume can we discover in depth media specific languages, even disciplines of dance and the body (and therefore new kind of content). trans.<<<Although improvisation is based on a conceptual precept, it is not conceptual dance 'per se' as one may disregard the performative concept at any time. Where as in Improvisation the content (movement) is an engaged, reflexive, adaptive process, for conceptual dance it is perfunctory. When we look to the software/hardware the development process is conceptual and clearly systematic. The tools are developed with a purpose/goal that is followed until completion, the aesthetics of coding are rarely taken into account. Both software and hardware are employed for a specific purpose rather than their application/context emerging through each performance. >>> Johan.<<yes. this is very interesting as we rarely have discussed contemporary conceptual dance here, and what state movement manifests in it. (I never saw Dunn' s work)>> No matter how improvised an improvisation is... it is nevertheless the result of a sedimentation process, it happens within certain frameworks. Equally software and hardware need not be developed from the start according to an un- changing concept: both can be seen as processes of sedimentation in feedback with each other, this is at least the way in which I approach the work and many platforms for interaction with sound and image make this feedback quite possible allowing for changes in a rather accessible, sometimes even straightforward manner. I like the idea of the ongoing transformation (indeed morphogenesis) of the instrument, and never to consider it as finished, in its structure. On the other hand I would avoid dichotomies between the perfunctory character of movement in conceptual dance vs. the engaged reflexive process of improvisation. One could say that there is no conceptual dance "per se", nor is there any improvisation "per se": there are neverending crossovers and variations with no original matrix. In every improvisation the sedimented practices of the body are in play, with all its conceptual levels of association (depending on the kind and context of the improv.) equally, when "performing concepts", when embodying the concepts, the improvisation of the body is always at play, nothing whatsoever happens without it, like in any kind of dance, music or theatre performance. Of course this doesnt mean that we should through away the distinctions I am just suggesting to make them more flexible. Apart from the interesting suggestion of Johannes of inluding the engaged generative or adaptive process into the concept itself. Indeed in practice there tends to be a conflict between the more goal oriented design of the software and the more open process of the improvisation and rehearsal and choreographing, because the dichotomies are after all articulating most of our technologies and practices (which is why it would be so intereting to develop the technologies ourselves to a greater extent). Redefining this framework I see as one of our major challenges. best Jaime _______________ Jaime del Val Instituto REVERSO Aguila Real 24, 28232 Madrid, SPAIN Tel.: (+34) 687 558 436 www.reverso.org