Dear Thomas and all,
Thomas, are you able to say more about your following sentence, and how we are
able to transform at the roots? What can we do, or not do, to make
transformation happen? How do we go beyond?
In my opinion, systemic facilitators or therapists would be well served to go
beyond recognizing and embracing judging and attempt to transform it at the
roots.
To do so, one must overcome the natural human resistance to questioning our
assumptions and identifications.
Kind regards and many thanks,
Sadhana
________________________________
From: Thomas Bryson <tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Tuesday, July 24, 2012 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [ConstellationTalk] Woody Allen/judgement
Dear Ed, Maria and others,
The starting point of any observation includes the frame of reference of the
observer.
Judgement takes observation further into ideas of good and bad, which points
back to the emotions and unconscious patterns in the biographic and systemic
legacy of the observer.
It may be something new and healthy for a child to break out of personal and
family habits of repressing emotions and not expressing them.
In a group such as Maria mentions, there can be a container where the group
leader takes the role of parent, allowing the inner children of the
participants to both belong and speak up.
I think it is helpful to recognize that whenever observation has emotional
content that it is being colored by unconscious interpretation.
Through open dialogue there is the opportunity to become more aware of
unconscious habits, fears and needs and to uncover blind spots.
Ed's quote points to how widespread is 'judging mind.' Maria endorses embracing
it.
In my opinion, systemic facilitators or therapists would be well served to go
beyond recognizing and embracing judging and attempt to transform it at the
roots.
To do so, one must overcome the natural human resistance to questioning our
assumptions and identifications.
Our observations are simply hypotheses and our judgements may say more about
ourselves than they do about those whom we judge.
If we are unwilling to look inward, we make no progress in reducing the
fragmentation of our selves, clients and society.
Rigid interpretations of right and wrong lead to violence between the good and
the bad, between us and them.
Respectfully yours,
Thomas Bryson
On Jul 24, 2012, at 1:53 AM, Maria Dolenc wrote:
Thank you all in this subject of Judgements.
I often encourage people in my group to express all judgements to each
other including me in the group , otherwise it goes into repression or
"shadow" side of us.
Thank you Ed for pointing out Bob's saying.
My " judging mind" doesn't stop and i learned to embrace it.
Cheers Maria
On 24/07/2012, at 9:44 AM, ed lynch wrote:
I remember Bob Resnick saying, „9 out 10 people will judge us and
the tenth
one is a liar.‰
Ed
On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Zaquie Meredith <zaquie@xxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:
**it your
Dear Thomas Bryson,
Thank you for your truth.
To me Judgment seems to be hand in hand with an inflicted Pain (be
own or by others such as somebody caused an accident, forexample)and or
by a set of moral standards we learned.understand
But! Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged!
And so…it seems...we all will be judged…
Zaquie C Meredith, S.Paulo, Brazil
On 23/07/12 15:13, "Thomas Bryson" <tb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Dear Dan, Mishra, Zaquie, Vinay and others,
What interests me the most here is the dynamic of judgement. I
I hearand appreciate Zaquie being human and admitting secret judgement.
how muchMishra speaking of social morality, a form of judgement that is
understandable. I appreciate Vinay pointing to the systemic
understanding. And I hear Dan speaking of love in a situation that
probably made people uncomfortable on several levels.
I never understood what it was like to be judged, was unaware of
creating untilI judged others and how much pain I had been unconsciously
years andI received strong judgement myself. I had left my wife of 31
in mymoved to Germany to be with another woman. This upset many people
andcommunity. It was painful to be judged. Then I felt like a victim
like thejudged them for judging me. Suddenly, I realized that I was just
judgement as ifones who were judging me. I decided to let them carry the
relief tothey were representing it in my constellation. It was a great
doesnot have to carry judgement anymore.
Judgement says much more about the person who is judging than it
andabout the one who is judged. Despite social norms, views of good
aboutevil, and social justice - we each walk our own paths. My opinion
together foryour path is relevant only to the extent that our paths are
do tosome time. I cannot know your inner requirements or what you must
Massachusetts.come back into a greater wholeness.
Blessing to all,
Thomas Bryson
On Jul 23, 2012, at 6:25 PM, Dan Booth Cohen, PhD wrote:
In the 1980s, I was friendly with a Lesbian couple in
had beenOne was
a high school teacher; the other was a well-known writer. They
their 35thtogether several years. Now married, they recently celebrated
J. wasanniversary together. Theirs was originally a summer romance.
shock,25, the
Assistant Director of a summer camp. C. was a 15 year-old camper.
Imagine
the scandal and outrage they faced in the mid 1970s.
Knowing them years after, when both families had overcome their
this isit
seemed like love had overcome the Order. Hellinger wrote that
endured.the
beginning and the end of all tragedy. In their case, love
Vinay
Dan
From: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Steve ;
woman 35Gunther
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:20 AM
To: ConstellationTalk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [ConstellationTalk] Woody Allen
Hey folks
Interested to hear some perspectives on this. Woody Allen...Soon
Yi...we all
know the story. Is it pedophilia, or just a guy marrying a
sentiment.years
his junior who happened to be adopted for a while?
My wife refuses to see Woody Allen movies, and I can get her
essentiallyPeople seem to have just by passed the whole affair, and
seems toforgiven Woody. Theres no doubt, he is a great filmaker, and
is acontinue to make good films (though I havent seen them since the
debacle).
So from a constellation view - well, it seems pretty clear he
part of aperpetrator. The facilitator however doesnt just join the general
condemnation, but sees things systemically. Honouring every
intosystem, acknowledging the loyalty ties, the children who step
issue asrescue
the system, etc.
But how does that place us in contemplating, socially, such an
see himthis? And does anyone out there boycott his films...or do you
kind of.as,
well, just a flawed human being, like the rest of us, well,
we would
Many friends I know who are horrified at pedophilia dont have any
hesitation
at seeing Woodys latest movie.
Do you think one has to separate the man from the art, or else
Andprobaby boycott a great deal of art, historic and contemporary.
their rocksvarious
psychotherapies as founded by various dirty old men getting
categoryoff
on young women. And a number of spiritual groups fall in that
Good filmsas
well. Can we seperate out good teachings from bad teachers?
hearingfrom
unethical filmakers?
I dont know, it all seems very complex to me, and interested in
other perspectives.
Vinay
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Yahoo! Groups Links
--
J. Edward Lynch, PHD
Advanced and Beginner Systemic Constellation Trainings
Nov., Jan., Mar., May., in Connecticut
Four 4 day Modules, for more info:
www.systemicinstitute.com
breakers2@xxxxxxxxx
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Maria Dolenc
0425 277 279
mariadolenc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.mariadolenc.com.au
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